Trapdoor ........... perhaps

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mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Wed May 19, 2021 12:15 pm

Yes, I realize that Woody as this gun is for our clang and bang offhand matches which is any metallic sight. I thought I would like the Buffington much more than I actually do after shooting with it some and much prefer the longer sight radius of a rear,tang mount aperture with blade up front.

Tom Trevor
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by Tom Trevor » Wed May 19, 2021 5:15 pm

If you read the ordnance reports for 1879-81 the armory marksman found no advantage to the Sharps sights over the Bull sight in their shooting of the Springfield rifle 70 grain 500 grain loads.But remember those were far better marksman than 98% of us will ever be.

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alfajim
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by alfajim » Wed May 19, 2021 8:35 pm

Tom Trevor wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 5:15 pm
If you read the ordnance reports for 1879-81 the armory marksman found no advantage to the Sharps sights over the Bull sight in their shooting of the Springfield rifle 70 grain 500 grain loads.But remember those were far better marksman than 98% of us will ever be.
Tom, what does the Bull sight look like I don't see a picture of it in Joe & Craig's book 5th edition. I saw a picture of it once I think but don't remember. :roll:

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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by Tom Trevor » Thu May 20, 2021 10:22 am

Alfajim, Go to Al Fraskas site www.trapdoorcollector.com and scroll down home page to Sgt. Gearys Creedmoor rifle . There is a nice shot of the Bull sight on it. Below it are some pictures of my long range as well.

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alfajim
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by alfajim » Thu May 20, 2021 11:23 am

Tom Trevor wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 10:22 am
Alfajim, Go to Al Fraskas site www.trapdoorcollector.com and scroll down home page to Sgt. Gearys Creedmoor rifle . There is a nice shot of the Bull sight on it. Below it are some pictures of my long range as well.
Tom thanks, ahh now I remember that's where I saw it and the pictures of your rifle too, haven't been to Al's site in a while. :shock: :roll:

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Thu May 20, 2021 4:37 pm

What was the Metcalf attachment on the officers model ?

Tom Trevor
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by Tom Trevor » Thu May 20, 2021 5:58 pm

Mdeland, That was a special order for Lt. Rockwell. Carbine engraved as officers rifle and Metcalfe device installed. Officers at that time drove the arsenal nuts with time consuming special orders so the officers rifle was designed and was to be the the item sold.

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Thu May 20, 2021 9:21 pm

I found a video explaining what it was and what they look like . Rock Island did the video and had a couple Trapdoor examples to look at and the appropriate serial # range and model they were assembled on. It simply was a wood box magazine that fit on a rail just ahead of the lock plate with a capacity of eight rounds for quick reloads. The lever at the rear cam-ed a tongue on the front back of the wood magazine box into a button at the front of the rail to lock the box magazine in place.

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Tue May 25, 2021 1:56 am

I found this sight at the gun show this week end in Palmer. I have one just like it with a few mods on the .43 Spanish and it's a very good low price tang peep with a little rework.
I added a windage collar to lock it down with two opposing screws and a flat spring to hold top center in the base.
Here are some pictures of both sights.
New one pre- mod.
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mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Tue May 25, 2021 1:59 am

Same sight with the mods on the Roller.
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mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Tue May 25, 2021 4:55 pm

The windage collar works well and is kept on by drilling a screw seat in both ends of the windage drum. The body of the collar snugly fits the OD of the drum base and the opposing screws secure it to the drum centers , the collar just floats on the drum base , the opposing screws secure it in place against the drum ends. It gets you quite a bit of windage at the rear and then locks it down along with the staff tension against its threads.
The elevation of course is in the upper staff thread and is secured by tension with the neoprene washer.
On the modified sight I had to machine a new ,higher, elevation staff.
These aren't much good for frequent and precise elevation changes, lacking a vernier scale, but are really nice and out of the way for static yardage shooting which is what I will be doing with it at our clang and bang matches. Probably four range settings of 50, 100 ,150 and 200 yards.
I'm thinking a practical way to do this once a good load is established is two make four separate progressively high turrets with the corresponding elevation for that load and yardage stamped on the eye cup.
The turret on the modified sight ( on the Roller) is for 100 yard pigs with the 10 grain unique load under a 400 plus grain bullet.
This 10 grain Unique load is showing promise in the 45-70 trap door as well.
I don't have a velocity read on it yet but it can't be much over 1000 fps,if that. I bet I can see them go down range through my spotting scope when the light is right. :lol:

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Tue May 25, 2021 6:27 pm

One more thing I should mention if any one decides to go this route making up a collar for windage, the right side of the collar needs a hemisphere cut on the bottom to clear the large, knurled, staff screw head.
Without the collar the staff will come loose when changing elevation and you loose your windage setting and it's a pain in the keester to reset accurately with the drum hash marks.

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Sun May 30, 2021 6:13 pm

Well, I'm going to give the new sight the same mods but have some other projects waiting for attention so in the mean time will give the Buiffington a more thorough trial examination. I'm still not sure how I want to make and inlet the tang extension for the eventual mounting of the aperture sight in the picture.
I've pretty much ruled out the home made aperture sight as I want better integrated adjustment than it would provide. I always seem to wind up with a better outcome if I chew on things for a bit before picking up any tools.
Boy the set over front sight works like a champ and still looks centered from the rear. Glad I made it .100 wide and hold six o'clock. It really shows up well against the steel targets in the white or black.
The different height turrets for the four elevations needed in clang and bang match we shoot monthly will be determined with the Buffington readings plus a bit of extrapolation for the increase sight radius. Each will also still have half turn elevation fine tune adjustments of about .018 if I figured correctly.

mdeland
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by mdeland » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:32 pm

I got to looking over the Buffington sight last night and the very small integrations and decided that I could use my calipers to set the various sight settings for 50,100,150 and 200 meters and forget about the sight staff integrations. I'll measure the slide height from the bottom of the staff while in the down position then elevate and use the triangle open notch for the rear sight. It will also work for the aperture hole that is a bit lower.
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alfajim
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Re: Trapdoor ........... perhaps

Post by alfajim » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:09 pm

mdeland wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:32 pm
I got to looking over the Buffington sight last night and the very small integrations and decided that I could use my calipers to set the various sight settings for 50,100,150 and 200 meters and forget about the sight staff integrations. I'll measure the slide height from the bottom of the staff while in the down position then elevate and use the triangle open notch for the rear sight. It will also work for the aperture hole that is a bit lower.
Mike not sure where to look or find it but a trapdoor guy made a setting gauge for the Buffington sight out of a 1" mike that set under the slide when vertical and sets it then you lock it he was offering them for sale, just don't recall where now darn it. :shock: :oops: :(

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