Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

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Kenny Wasserburger
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Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Received this in today’s mail.

Makes Mayer’s account look pretty much fictional. Places named creeks even. Not a lot on Buffalo hunting but plenty on Sharps killing Grizzly bears. Pickett served in the civil war and was an actual colonel. Not the drummer boy Mayer claimed to be.

William Picket was a successful rancher, and served Wyoming in the state legislature.

Frank Mayer, you look terribly small in William Pickett’s Shadow.


KW.
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We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

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Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

This was what started my research on William Pickett.

I did a bit of searching on the Web, a Johny Reb and a civil Engineer, that is the guy alright. Grizzly Bear Hunter. Explains much of the effort he put into his building of those Screens for Trajectory Tests.

First Pres of Boone and Crockett, 3 terms in Wyo Legislature.


Sure as hell was no Drummer boy in the Civil War. Highly respected Writer, shooter, Documented letters to the Sharps Factory, Many articles in the shooting literature of the times.

Makes Frank Mayer look like a dullard or C Roth a total idiot.

Here is something I wrote a few years back.
Quoted From KW
Within the first volume of The Rifle are a series of articles from William Pickett.

Fellow Wyomingite and Montana resident, William Pickett, was a noted hunter and rifle Crank of the era, he began his hunting in the Rocky Mountains in 1878 with a 45-2 7/8ths Sharps. He gives clear and concise times and dates with many experiments with this rifle including chrono Data listing powder charges up to 114 grs of C&H #6 powder, known as Fg powder today. One of his first major experiments was done in 1881 at Bozeman Mt, testing trajectories of his express loads. In his letters in 1882-84 he felt that the 3.25 case was needed to flatten the trajectories and to do so required a higher muzzle velocity, He is one of the movers and shakers that convinced UMC and others to make the 45 3.25 case, all in the name of express loads for 270 and 330 grain bullets. Picket is also quoted in Seller's book via some letters he wrote the Sharps rifle company. He dates Winchesters 3.25 chambered 1885 rifle and ammo coming out in 1885, strictly as an express rifle and loading.

By 1886 Pickett is convinced that the 3.25 case gives no marked advantage over his beloved 2-7/8ths Sharps case as one can get up to 120 grs of powder in the 2-7/8ths via careful filling of such with a 3 foot long drop tube. (Pickett's own words and often mentioned in the paper) The paper also contains information that gives trajectory data to support his findings along with chrono Data from his own loads. This was important enough to him to have a highwall built in 1885 chambered in 45-2 7/8ths to be sent to Springfield Armory along with his own hand loads to do chronograph testing. As Pickett did not trust the freight companies of the day, to carefully handle his beloved Sharps Rifle.

Pickett goes on to mention that the 45-3.25 case is purely an American invention while early British Express rounds were shorter and based on the .577 case head, and were of the bottle neck type, he even mentions owning one such rifle and gives Chrono Data on it also. It was a double rifle. By 1886 the Brits were also building 3.25 case ammo and rifles. Picket also felt that the fater short case give better burn ie Cleaner burn of the powder!

Pickett is very clear the 3.25 case was originally brought forth to flatten trajectories for the 270 and 330-370 grain express bullets, Yet it was also just as clear that the phrase used today (the point of diminished returns)? was met at the 45-2 7/8ths case with about 114 grs of C&H #6.

Pickett was also a big fan of the 1-18 twist in the 45-110 aka 45-2 7/8ths Sharps. Feeling this was all that was needed to give excellent accuracy to the lighter express style bullets. Our British cousins and also Winchester felt other wise, often you will find 1885 original Highwalls in the 40-3.25 or 45-3.25 with much slower twists. Many 3.25 British Express rifles are also barreled with the much slower twists, then the 1-18 favored by Pickett.

P as he goes by in The Rifle, mentions his killing of 38 grizzly bears using the 45-2 7/ths Sharps, 22 were one shot kills all using 330 gr express bullets. It was a different time and place for sure!

After a lot of years and time spent researching the 45-2 7/8ths Sharps, and also delving into the the story behind the 3.25 case I have found a lot of facts. Seeing the 45-120-500 grain PP Winchester loaded Ammo in L.A. Huffman's personal effects, which most likely came from the 1881-82 Smithsonian Expedition. Now I have found someone who actually was a respected and well known Rifle Crank of that era, that personally had something to do with the coming to be of the 3.25 case. And being the Crank that he was, took the time to test and write and share his findings. The work that Pickett put in just to test the Trajectories of his Express loads is unreal Pickett spent alot of time building a level field and setting up of sky screens to measure the trajectory�s of his rifles. My hat is off to William Pickett of Meeteetse Wyoming.

Too bad a Book was not written about William Pickett instead of Frank Mayer. We have a lot of factuaWithin the first volume of The Rifle are a series of articles from William Pickett.

Fellow Wyomingite and Montana resident, William Pickett, was a noted hunter and rifle Crank of the era, he began his hunting in the Rocky Mountains in 1878 with a 45-2 7/8ths Sharps. He gives clear and concise times and dates with many experiments with this rifle including chrono Data listing powder charges up to 114 grs of C&H #6 powder, known as Fg powder today. One of his first major experiments was done in 1881 at Bozeman Mt, testing trajectories of his express loads. In his letters in 1882-84 he felt that the 3.25 case was needed to flatten the trajectories and to do so required a higher muzzle velocity, He is one of the movers and shakers that convinced UMC and others to make the 45 3.25 case, all in the name of express loads for 270 and 330 grain bullets. Picket is also quoted in Seller's book via some letters he wrote the Sharps rifle company. He dates Winchesters 3.25 chambered 1885 rifle and ammo coming out in 1885, strictly as an express rifle and loading.

By 1886 Pickett is convinced that the 3.25 case gives no marked advantage over his beloved 2-7/8ths Sharps case as one can get up to 120 grs of powder in the 2-7/8ths via careful filling of such with a 3 foot long drop tube. (Pickett's own words and often mentioned in the paper) The paper also contains information that gives trajectory data to support his findings along with chrono Data from his own loads. This was important enough to him to have a highwall built in 1885 chambered in 45-2 7/8ths to be sent to Springfield Armory along with his own hand loads to do chronograph testing. As Pickett did not trust the freight companies of the day, to carefully handle his beloved Sharps Rifle.

Pickett goes on to mention that the 45-3.25 case is purely an American invention while early British Express rounds were shorter and based on the .577 case head, and were of the bottle neck type, he even mentions owning one such rifle and gives Chrono Data on it also. It was a double rifle. By 1886 the Brits were also building 3.25 case ammo and rifles. Picket also felt that the fater short case give better burn ie Cleaner burn of the powder!

Pickett is very clear the 3.25 case was originally brought forth to flatten trajectories for the 270 and 330-370 grain express bullets, Yet it was also just as clear that the phrase used today (the point of diminished returns)? was met at the 45-2 7/8ths case with about 114 grs of C&H #6.

Pickett was also a big fan of the 1-18 twist in the 45-110 aka 45-2 7/8ths Sharps. Feeling this was all that was needed to give excellent accuracy to the lighter express style bullets. Our British cousins and also Winchester felt other wise, often you will find 1885 original Highwalls in the 40-3.25 or 45-3.25 with much slower twists. Many 3.25 British Express rifles are also barreled with the much slower twists, then the 1-18 favored by Pickett.

P as he goes by in The Rifle, mentions his killing of 38 grizzly bears using the 45-2 7/ths Sharps, 22 were one shot kills all using 330 gr express bullets. It was a different time and place for sure!

After a lot of years and time spent researching the 45-2 7/8ths Sharps, and also delving into the the story behind the 3.25 case I have found a lot of facts. Seeing the 45-120-500 grain PP Winchester loaded Ammo in L.A. Huffman's personal effects, which most likely came from the 1881-82 Smithsonian Expedition. Now I have found someone who actually was a respected and well known Rifle Crank of that era, that personally had something to do with the coming to be of the 3.25 case. And being the Crank that he was, took the time to test and write and share his findings. The work that Pickett put in just to test the Trajectories of his Express loads is unreal Pickett spent alot of time building a level field and setting up of sky screens to measure the trajectory�s of his rifles. My hat is off to William Pickett of Meeteetse Wyoming.

Too bad a Book was not written about William Pickett instead of Frank Mayer. We have a lot of factual information on Pickett. And it would of been one hell of a read." End of Quote

Another Hunter-shooter-naturalist:

Was William Wright, Steve Garbe brought up his excellent book on Grizz, I now have a copy of it, Steve along with Dan Pharris are both pretty much convinced that Wright also used a 2-7/8ths for his hunting in a 1885 Highwall along with a 600 Grain Bullet :shock:

William Pickett, As I said, much documentation exists on what He did.

He deserves credit for his efforts.

KW
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Ray Newman
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Ray Newman »

Kenny: where did you find a copy? AMAZON or what??
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Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Amazon yup..


Kenny
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Ray Newman
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Ray Newman »

Kenny: thanks for this thread. I just ordered a copy.
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JWL
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by JWL »

Has anyone here tried a 325 or 350 grain GG bullet in their 45-110 Shiloh?
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by powderburner »

i have, both grease groove gould and a 292 paper patch with 120 gas of powder it took considerable cleaning to remove the lead , just too much of a good thing, i tried both soft lead and ww alloy neither were stellar ,Im pretty sure the 292 patched bullet skipped the rifling , my rifle is an 18 twist , i would like to read this book and see his thoughts on the subject,
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by cw50-70 »

I've tried them in my 500-450 No 1 Express with 115 grains or so and also duplexed. The Westley Richards 1881 Deeley and Edge was made for them (well maybe not so much for the 350 and maybe down to a 270 or so) and they come screaming out of the slow twist (might even call it very slow twist), odd, almost smooth, ratchety rifling. And, they will equal the standard for a British Express rifle of 6 inches at 100 yards.
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by JWL »

I know lots of people choose a fast twist in their rifles with the belief that they can then shoot any bullet, heavy or light. Personally I’ve never had much luck getting the light bullets to perform in a 18” twist barrel. I think Winchester knew what they were doing by putting a slow twist in their rifles, like their 45-90, 40-60 ‘76, etc.
Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Pickett makes mention of using 90 grs, 102 grs of powder in his loads.

KW.
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by powderburner »

I dont remember where the load came from but i was trying to duplicate it perhaps a winchester load.
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kurt »

Well Dean,
I have a .45 caliber swage die that will go down to a 292 gr or 300 gr and I have a pedersoli .45-3-1/4 and a very large pile of snow :lol:

May be???? :lol: :lol:
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powderburner
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by powderburner »

So about 135-40 gns in that case eh? 120 would be a reduced weenie load
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by Kurt »

well we don't want to load a weenie load so I will breach seat a bullet and about 50 grains in the chamber and seat a full case of 1F close the breach and push the bullet back down on the powder and let er go :lol: :lol:
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Re: Better than the Buffalo Harvest.

Post by bobw »

There is another book out there " The Grizzly Bear" by William H
Wright that was first published by Charles Scribner and sons in 1909 and again in 1977 by University of Nebraska Press about Wright 's 25 years of hunting the grizzly and finally just studying them and photographing them. It's interesting reading if nothing else it gives you an idea about the lack of conservative thought on wildlife resources. Wright said he 1st used a 44 winchester lever action and because it had a worn extractor he procured a winchester single shot 45 that used 100 grs of bp. He further stated he had "swages" made up to produce a 600 gr bullet that allways did the job provided the bullet placement was on the shoulder. After reading a lot of these kind of books one kinda wonders how many of the "authors" actually did the writing not just dictate to writers who screwed up or omitted the details to leave doubts in our minds 140+ years later. Bobw
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