To Woody & John Bly - Trapdoor question

[TexasMac]

Hey guys,

I have a good friend that's considering purchasing the Pedersoli TD Long Range Rifle (https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/pro ... e-rifle-32). He's an experience BPCR shooter, mostly shooting High Walls, but the TD intrigues him. I've owned 3 original TDs & still have two: an unfired Mod 1884 and a1877 carbine that I shoot for fun and hunting. But I have never shot any in silhouette competition as all are or have been original rifles and don't have the correct tang for a tang sight and I'm not about to tap & drill the barrel for a scope.

Based on Pedersoli's version of the TD, it looks & reads like it would be a real good "shooter". The only possible negative might be the long forearm and barrel bands affecting long range accuracy - probably just about impossible to float. Pedersoli is well-known for making very good barrels & the rifle is setup for silhouette. I know that both of you are TD fans, by chance do either of you have a Pedersoli or know of anyone that uses the Pedersoli in competition?

BTW, with Al Frasca's help, the leading expert on TDs, I confirmed my original 1884 was most likely unfired since it left the Armory. It's a beautiful TD with very nice case colors. The only marks of any kind on it are some very shallow impressions on the stock very close the butt plate that AL indicated are made from the wood rails that held and separated the rifles in the factory shipping crates. Another expert collector on TDs, Dick Hosmer, said that there were many 1884s still in storage, unissued & never used, at Springfield when the Armory switched over to the sliding-rod-bayonet model. I lucked out & happen to find one but hesitate to shoot it.

But back to my questions on the Pedersoli. Hopefully you guys have some insight to offer. Thanks.

Wayne

[TexasMac]

Here's the correct link to Pedersoli's TD:
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/pro ... e-rifle-32

Wayne

[beltfed]

Wayne,
Please forgive me for chiming in here. I, too, like TDs.
I had looked at the Ped. Long Range TD some time back.
The one thing that stopped a purchase for me at the time is that
the Long Range model does not have the single set trigger like their Officers Model TD
I had one of the OM and the set trigger was really nice. It was unfired. Never fired it, though as other "irons'
were in the fire then and it would not have been an "Original" for Vintage matches. So sold it
So I kept shooting my 1884 Original for those matches. I found back then, with better eyesight, that little
peep in the Buffington sight enabled darned good shooting with it.
beltfed/arnie

[Woody]

Wayne,

If your friend wants to shoot in the military category in BPTR, then my understanding of the rules, would eliminate the long range rifle. Silhouette has no such category. At Friendship, we shoot two matches a year that allow military rifles that conform to the BPTR rules.

There are still many affordable, shootable trapdoors out there. They are capable of fine accuracy as is. The Model 1884 with the Buffington sight is fully adjustable for both windage and elevation. The fully supported barrel does not require "floating". If you look at the NRA National Records, you can see that they can be competitive as is.

I just picked up a Military Borchardt Sharps Model of 1878. Although BPTR legal, you are handicapped by the non-windage adjustable sight on it. Elevation may be a challenge too. Still should be fun to play with.

Woody

[John Bly]

Wayne, It looks like an interesting rifle. You could shoot silhouette with it but it won't be legal for a military match under the current rules. They must be as issued with a few minor variations such as a wider taller front sight blade and trigger work for a suitable trigger pull.

While trapdoors won't shoot with today's modern silhouette and target rifles they can shoot quite well. I've shot a 90 at 600 yards with mine and Woody has shot a 91. That's pretty good with the sights on a trapdoor and dealing with the torque upon firing. I had one of the steel repro pistol grips on mine when I first when to GA but took it off because no one else had one and Woody wasn't sure it was totally legal even though it was a correct period item. It was not an issued item for all rifles.

The bedding on trapdoors is not a problem on mine. The stock and barrel fit is very good. I shoot mine with the cleaning rod in place but Woody takes his out because he says it can break the rod retainer and effect accuracy.

I've also got one that is virtually mint condition except for a long scratch on the stock. I've shot it but not in a match.

[TexasMac]

Thanks guys. I understand my friend is interested in using it for BPCR silhouette, not in an official military match.

John, concerning the trigger, I am aware of modification to the standard trigger that can result in significant improvement.

Here's single-set trigger that's available: http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_p ... /(533).htm. As noted the tumblers must be cut for a fly.

And there are two or three methods to modify the tumbler to remove the trigger creep and sear engagement to reduce the trigger pull. I believe a guy by the name of Robert L. Smith sold a modified tumbler at one time. I have no idea if he still does.

Wayne

[TexasMac]

John,

I meant to ask you what methods you use to improve the trigger?

Wayne

[TexasMac]

Wayne,
Please forgive me for chiming in here. I, too, like TDs. I had looked at the Ped. Long Range TD some time back. The one thing that stopped a purchase for me at the time is that the Long Range model does not have the single set trigger like their Officers Model TD
beltfed/arnie

Arnie,

See my comments in my earlier post concerning the single-set trigger upgrade to the TD's. It has been available for many years but I never upgraded my rifle. If I were buying the Pedersoli for silhouette competition I'd definitely consider it.

Wayne

[Clarence]

Some years ago, we were at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, MT, where they advertised an extensive display from the post-Civil War period when Montana was being opened to homesteaders. Part of the display was a full case of Trapdoor rifles, with a note that it was one of two cases that had recently been found. The case colors I could see were very nice!

Clarence

[alfajim]

Just a bit of trivia the original TD Long Range was a 45-90 6 groove 18 twist with the tang rear sight and a globe front. All else was the same not sure if the trigger pull was changed though.

Jim O

[bruce m]

jim,
it possibly had a 2.4" case, but might have been referred to as the 45/80.
don't quote me on that.
bruce.

[SSShooter]

If you ever have the opportunity a visit to the original Springfield Armory in Springfield, MA is worth the effort. Many of the original buildings still stand and the museum has quite the display of TDs, as well as other armaments/munitions that the Springfield Armory is well noted for developing & producing over its long history.

[Woody]

Dad's last duty assignment prior to retirement from the US Air Force, was Westover AFB. Only a few miles from the Armory and Museum. As a machinist, Dad toured the armory and brought my brother and me with him. I remember.

Woody

[VBull]

I've shot a trapdoor with a 5 groove 1:19 5/8" twist. The trigger is the standard without single set. It does have a nice crisp let off at 3 1/2 lbs. It has what I'd call a nut sack pistol grip. Although it has a Buffington sight I think it originally had the Hotchkiss type. The other interesting thing is the long tapered throat. I can seat the 1881 style government bullet out until only the base is in the cartridge before the first band engraves. A .45-2.1 case will than hold 80/83 grains of powder depending on granulation and compression. There are a pair of threaded inserts in the wrist for a tang sight.
Full power loads for long range have harsh recoil! Another issue I've run into during a silhouette match is the barrel heats up very fast making wiping mandatory. When using a blow tube I was only able to get around 10 - 12 shots off before fouling out. A flexible wiping rod is needed to get around the corner. I like the trapdoors but can no longer see the Buffington sight to use it in a match.
I'm unable to get a photo of the rifling. (so far)

[VBull]

I've tried several different ways to get a shot of the rifling and this is the best I can come up with.