barrel torque direction

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powderburner
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by powderburner »

Just take a 2&7/8 with a 550 gn bullet in it and fire it one handed and see where the rifle lands. That will give you the proper answer for your rifle.
Dean Becker
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sandhillcowboy1
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by sandhillcowboy1 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpKxAbwgHsk

Go to the 40 second mark, on the tool bar on right click the cog looking icon and then click .25 to set at slowest playback speed. It certainly appears that the rifle torques to the right. This is a .45-110 with straight stock configuration shooting a 550 gr PP lead bullet powered with 105 grs of Kik 1.5
Walt was a client and good friend, a former Master Chief. He suffered an injury that limits the strength in his right hand grip. This was the first time he ever fired a sharps rifle. 400 yards and he hit the bull. You really need a tight hold on these.

The rifle is a Badger barrel with 1-18" RH twist. Standard chamber and reamed with one of Kurt's reamers. This rifle is deadly accurate. Originally belonged to Dick Savage and was his first sharps rifle. Then I bought from him, very accurate but was a 1 1/2 heavy 34 inch barrel and too heavy for my offhand. Traded back to him for a .45-70 which also has a gentle transition and a 30" heavy barrel. Dick has been a top ten winner at Q a few times, and has been doing very well at gong shoots across the country with this .45-110 the past few years. The rifle was named James Henry after Dick's Dad who was a Master Sgt.
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sandhillcowboy1
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by sandhillcowboy1 »

It was a 537 gr BACO bullet.

Rick
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rgchristensen
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by rgchristensen »

Can't resist jumping in here --- You can't just repeal the laws of physics. If the bullet rotates clockwise, the rifle MUST rotate counterclockwise. HOWEVER, note that the comb of the stock is BELOW t he line of the bore, so when the rifle rotates counterclockwise, the comb of the stock will move toward the RIGHT. Simple as that....

CHRIS
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SteveA
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by SteveA »

You are right Chris.
It's the Laws of Physics not the assumptions of physics.
Steve
sandhillcowboy1
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by sandhillcowboy1 »

rgchristensen wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:06 pm Can't resist jumping in here --- You can't just repeal the laws of physics. If the bullet rotates clockwise, the rifle MUST rotate counterclockwise. HOWEVER, note that the comb of the stock is BELOW t he line of the bore, so when the rifle rotates counterclockwise, the comb of the stock will move toward the RIGHT. Simple as that....

CHRIS
I am not arguing the laws of physics, learned that standing in a rowboat and trying to jump to shore:)
However if the torque is ccw would not the top of the tang sight then go to the left? It appears to be twisting to the right? Perhaps there is more than one law applicable here. Maybe once the bullet exits the barrel there is a "reverse" torque? I have no idea:)

Rick
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alfajim
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by alfajim »

How about this the bullet rotates CW barrel rotates CCW rifle pivots around bullet as a center point, vertical pivot,twisting stock to right barrel to left?
It would be just a moment reaction?

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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by cw50-70 »

Only place I have really noticed it is when I touch off 80 grains of 4350 under a 400 grain heavy jacketed bullet in my 450-400 3 1/4 MNE with right hand twist. The rifle ends up over my left shoulder.
Vern
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by Vern »

you are screwing the bullet down the bore, it is exerting clockwise force against the rifling.Get your cleaning rod with a jag and a tight patch start it down the bore from the chamber end and have your wife hold the rifle add see which way it tries to turn.
Vern
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by Vern »

Alfajim;You are correct if the bullet was not turning and the rifle was free to twist.
mdeland
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by mdeland »

The bullet wants to keep going straight ahead once in motion ( Newtons 1st law) the bullet inertia forward wants the barrel to go in a straight line with it but the rifling makes it turn right. The greater mass of the barrel/gun makes the bullet turn right. The barrel is trying to unwind from the bullets inertia straight ahead which causes the opposite reaction counter clockwise but the great friction load of the bullet in the rifling drags the rifle with it to the right over powering the opposite reaction and causes a right hand torque.
Weightlessness would not negate friction load.
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J.B.
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by J.B. »

[quote=Vern post_id=327352 time=1618610657 user_id=101102]
Alfajim;You are correct if the bullet was not turning and the rifle was free to twist.
[/quote]

.. Interesting you phrase it this way as thats the way it can feel on my 50 x 2 1/2 when I'm pushing the 695 grn bullet along with 115 grains of Swiss 1.5. With the 1/22" left hand twist its probably the best indicator I've experienced for torque. Touch off a round and it can sometimes feel like the bullet stands still and rotates the rifle ( and whatever is hanging onto said rifle :shock: ) to the left. Left hand twist...left hand torque. That is the reason I had a pistol grip configured on my Saddle rifle as it allowed more control and follow through. Back up to a more conventional 470-550 grain bullet and the torque remains but on a much reduced level. As a right handed shooter, the pistol grip is actually rotated into the palm of my hand rather than away. The fifty has been the best flag bearer for this although I've noticed it a little on the smaller cartridges..

J.B.
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alfajim
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by alfajim »

J.B. wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:47 pm
Vern wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:04 pm Alfajim;You are correct if the bullet was not turning and the rifle was free to twist.
.. Interesting you phrase it this way as thats the way it can feel on my 50 x 2 1/2 when I'm pushing the 695 grn bullet along with 115 grains of Swiss 1.5. With the 1/22" left hand twist its probably the best indicator I've experienced for torque. Touch off a round and it can sometimes feel like the bullet stands still and rotates the rifle ( and whatever is hanging onto said rifle :shock: ) to the left. Left hand twist...left hand torque. That is the reason I had a pistol grip configured on my Saddle rifle as it allowed more control and follow through. Back up to a more conventional 470-550 grain bullet and the torque remains but on a much reduced level. As a right handed shooter, the pistol grip is actually rotated into the palm of my hand rather than away. The fifty has been the best flag bearer for this although I've noticed it a little on the smaller cartridges..

J.B.
Because of the RH twist when the bullet enters the barrel it intermediately turns creating an opposite reaction and also a climbing motion it can't help it.
Perfect example is wheel stands of door slammer drag cars it's imparted by the drive line pinion rotation causing the diff housing to rotate up around the ring gear because the tires are glued to the ground and it is amplified by the ladder bars to the front of the car about at the transmission.
Even though you are holding the rifle the bullet still exerts enough force initially to roll it against you. :roll: :shock:
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SteveA
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by SteveA »

Wow this thread reminds me of the old shooters.com forum.
The Flat-earthers vs. the Pioneers. :D
Anyone else remember those days?
Steve
MrE
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Re: barrel torque direction

Post by MrE »

SteveA wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:26 pm Wow this thread reminds me of the old shooters.com forum.
The Flat-earthers vs. the Pioneers. :D
Anyone else remember those days?
Steve
All I remember of that time is getting kicked in the foot for shooting Xs up at Machias.
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