BPCR Matches

Talk with other Shiloh Sharps shooters.

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LazyM
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Saint Simons Island, GA

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by LazyM »

I'll probably regret saying anything but...

Background: I'm a A/AA shooter and could probably be better if I used a scope and had better eyes. I have been very fortunate to have shot a lot out west where there are a vast number of ranges and matches. I now live in a part of country where ranges are very sparse, with 600 yards being the longest I have seen (although they have no BPCR/BPTR). Reduced targets are not the same as shooting at 1000 yards. And hurricanes have nothing on "Wyoming Windage!"

My Thoughts: First, having shot at Smithmoor, and missing these shoots, I would pay attention to what Cody has to offer. I may not always agree with his thoughts, but he runs a VERY successful match. Proof is in the pudding.

Secondly, no one has mentioned gong shoots. Personally, I enjoy these greatly. Take a look at how many attend Quigley each year, and my favorite of Alliance (NE) Gun Club. This may very well be attuned to being a "fair" shooter and not a better shooter. Silhouette is second and target my least favorite. But recognize this is only MY opinion. I have no doubt others may enjoy in another order. I do believe that the "bang" of gong or knocking over a target is an allure for first timers.

Thirdly, make no mistake...this is a very expensive sport. I do believe the .22 shoots are more affordable and a reason for their popularity.

Fourth, it is a responsibility of every single one of us to bring new, young shooters into this sport. Not just BPCR/BPTR/Gong, but the shooting sport. Find those single moms with children that can use a good time at the range (forgive me if this sounds chauvinistic, but there tends to be a whole lot more single moms than single dads. Just saying). Or introduce those that tend to think of firearms as "assault weapons."

Finally, I use to shoot the gong shoot at Three Mile Range in Perry, Utah before they stopped the match. I never found out why they stopped. I would think anywhere they stopped offering matches would be a great source as to why. Also, ask those individuals that use to shoot matches, but no longer do. They, too, can offer insight.

This is a great sport and I enjoy the camaraderie of fellow shooters, as well as a good day shooting (and shooting well even). Keep in mind there is only 48 hours in a day and must be allocated to the various activities, sports, and "honey-do" projects in that time frame. Golf, fishing, sporting clays, and working in my wood shop quickly come to mind. Putting in the new sink, mowing the lawn and cleaning the pool quickly comes to my wifes mind.

Best to all.

Brian
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desert deuce
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by desert deuce »

Perry Utah? Attended a BIG silhouette match there. MC'd by the Mayor of Perry, Mayor Cronin. Great Range, Great Match.
What happened? Scuttlebutt says new mayor not agreeable with shooting sports so match died. Don't know if that is so but.....
Obviously something happened because a target range was under construction and colocated with the silhouette range.

HHHSharps posts here and was key in running that match, he may know.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
DeadEye
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by DeadEye »

Zack, 2016 was the last match in Perry, I was there. I overheard enough from the Mayor to tell you it was pure politics. If memory serves there were 45 of us there. The Mayor and her entourage hosted a coffee and donuts meet and greet. I spoke to her, complemented her on supporting a shooting venture when most politicians were running the other way. I believe from that chat she expected far greater numbers of shooters to support the expense the town council had spent on the range. Saturday night the supper was a catered affair, some of the best BBQ ribs ever. I was going down the line, the Mayor was serving. I complimented her on the superb meal, she responded, "It bloody well better be for what it's costing." Then Sunday afternoon I overheard (anybody within ten feet could have heard) her tearing HHHSharps a new one. He was a one man show there when he lost his partner Dale and did a great job.

Nothing discussed here could have saved that one.

Paul
"My heroes have always been cowboys and they still are it seems."
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desert deuce
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by desert deuce »

OH! Thanks DeadEye. Sounds like Eric did a great sales job.

Perspective, 45 for a first time match was pretty good. It felt like more shooters than that at the time, I shot both Irons and Scope. It seems it takes a while for a match to gain participants and even then there is an ebb and flow in numbers. I certainly was ready for a return trip.

Longevity may be what helped feed the latest Friendship get together
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
jackrabbit
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by jackrabbit »

I saw this recently and had to laugh. Something that can be a fatal flaw in management is concession to whiners & complainers who contribute nothing. The writer then went on to quote an old African saying, "even the lions are bothered by the flies" and finished with "If you aren't part of the solution, you most certainly are part of the problem."

Just something for match directors to keep in mind.
Cody
45bpcr
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by 45bpcr »

jackrabbit wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:18 am I saw this recently and had to laugh. Something that can be a fatal flaw in management is concession to whiners & complainers who contribute nothing. The writer then went on to quote an old African saying, "even the lions are bothered by the flies" and finished with "If you aren't part of the solution, you most certainly are part of the problem."

Just something for match directors to keep in mind.
Cody
Back in my wrench pulling days we had a saying among shop owners.

"10% of your customers will try to occupy 90% of your time and do 0% for your bottom line"

Those were the customers we'd fire.

Craig
Live Free or Die, Death is not the worst of Evils
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desert deuce
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Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by desert deuce »

Cody............see what happens when you mention flies? Anecdotal or otherwise.

Oh well, maybe the buzzing will drown out the tinitis?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by mdeland »

Well, I notice even match directors doing some whining as well but at least their involved. Humans being what we are are going to Bitch about what is irritating us but done in a constructive way can help produce a desired result. The demographic of those who will roll up their sleeves and get to work and those who will only talk is going to pretty much stay the same so excepting this and then dealing with it as best as one can is the reality.
When we were building our Bang and Clang rails after Midrange dried up in AK , 'four or Five of us located the railroad rails, had them delivered to the range and did all the construction of seating pillars, cutting and welding them in place. It was a lot of work and was done during the week at our own expense when some of us were still working for a living. It took a lot of sacrifice by a few for the many to enjoy and was entirely worth it !
I Bitch about the Numb Chucks that come during the week and purposely shoot holes in the thinner parts of the rails with 50 BMG's on purpose.
Our match director had nothing to do with the range work but has unfailingly and with great enthusiasm along side his very supportive wife been the best director one could ever hope for. We played to our individual strengths and gifting, built the four rails and as a result the participation continues to grow even through or perhaps because of Covid.
Another thing we did that worked was we added a tripod class to the venue for the older , less skillful and handicapped shooters. This is giving us in most cases four relays now to accommodate the increased numbers and we're now shooting year around where we used do it 8 months of the year.
Now, our numbers are not going to impress any one in the lower 48 but for up here they are quite good and getting better.
The other thing that is both fun ad satisfying for me personally is having built or repaired quite a few of the rifles being used at the match's.
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by mdeland »

I should clarify, the tripod class is stand up shooting not bench work, as the main venue is all offhand shooting .
Glen Ring
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Glen Ring »

Most BPCR, and lever action matches are small gatherings.

We will have 60 shooters at our Lever Gun regional, the last Lever gun nationals Jeanne ran had about 170 shooters. This years national BPCR match had about 70 shooters...and lever Gun Silhouette nationals had about 100 shooters. Not big numbers as shooting sports go.

Bigger Sass ( Cowboy dress up) matches number 3 to four HUNDRED! Yep 300 to 400!!
The Oklahoma city Gun Club has a big sass match each year with HUNDREDS of shooters. Our Women on target numbers are usually 4oo or better!

Our skeet matches are crowded , action pistol and IPSC matches usually have 60 to 75 shooters for the MONTHLY club match.

I have competed at traditional archery matches( long bow and recurve bow only ) that had FAR more numbers than lever action or singleshot national matches.

People like to shoot and the trick is, for the future of these sports, is to recruit from that shooting pool. They want to try these silhouette sports.

We have all met THAT guy at an event we were watching and interested in...but he was so full of himself he ran the potential new guy/gal off.
Don't be that guy...make these sports look easy and fun to a curious onlooker.

Be recruiters of the sport and not lay out ANY sport as mysterious requiring ultra expensive investments .

I was shooting a state lever gun match in Texas years ago and there was a curious and nervous guy watching. I inquired and he was pondering whether to try the sport. I advised him he could shoot with me, I'd show him the little I knew and that one of the door prizes was Pizza and dancing Girls!! When he stopped giggling he entered and has been shooting lever action since then. Be a fun recruiter .
( P.S. Yes , he did win the dancing girls and pizza . Two 60 plus YOA women snapped their fingers and strutted, I bought the pizza.)
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
Jeanne Ring
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Jeanne Ring »

Getting back to the original intent of this post, I have a little perspective to offer.

The one and only BPCR Regional match we ran, in 2019, was well attended, by BPCR standards. If memory serves, we had close to 40 shooters, mostly from the surrounding states. I think Wyoming was the farthest home state of anyone who attended.

Being our first BPCR match, I was not comfortable asking for prize donations from the "big" sponsors who usually donate to these type matches. I offered for a few to advertise in our shooters packets, and Larry Baker sent flyers and some product, a couple others sent flyers. Instead, we bought prizes to give away. We bought primers and brass, and along with what Larry donated, everyone walked away with something. For the 22 match, we had separate prizes. I remember gift certificates to Good Shooting, but can't remember what else we had. We also had framed $50 bills for High Animal for both 22 and BPCR, and framed $50 bills for winners of the 22 shootoff we had after the match. There were a few other cash prizes.

We had NRA medallions for both scope and iron, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. We had plaques and medallions for class awards, for both the 22 match and the BPCR match.

We also provided lunch both days and a nice catered dinner Saturday night.

We did have one guy call and ask if we were going to have "the usual" big prizes, and said it would be determinative for him and his crew of three if they would shoot the match. I guess it wasn't that big of a deal to them after all, as they did shoot and all three of them won some pretty good cash.

Bottom line, it is the match director who decides how the entry fees are spent. We have ran lever action regionals for eight years, and have always paid back to the shooters a minimum of 95 percent, and that is what we did on the BPCR regional.

As far as I know, everyone had a good time, despite the high humidity the first day. Had we continued with these matches, which was the plan, I would have contacted the "big" sponsors and perhaps would have had the "traditional" prizes to give. Unfortunately, you can't please everyone, and I got tired of trying.
Gussy
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Gussy »

I really appreciate anyone with the time and is willing to run a match.

The only suggestion I would have is to post a big sign:

"If you have a complaint put it writing on the bottom of the sign up sheet saying you will run the next match and correct the problem."
Glen Ring
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Glen Ring »

Gussy wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:47 pm I really appreciate anyone with the time and is willing to run a match.

The only suggestion I would have is to post a big sign:

"If you have a complaint put it writing on the bottom of the sign up sheet saying you will run the next match and correct the problem."
I love it !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by mdeland »

Great Idea, but of course it won't happen! ! Like my old pastor used to say, " the church has a few folks that will do 90 percent of the work and the rest will gladly let them" ! :lol:
sackett
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Re: BPCR Matches

Post by sackett »

[quote=jackrabbit post_id=330743 time=1630112582 user_id=137087]
The only places that are suffering "waning interest" are the ones that are doing the things you suggest. Socialism has never worked, and participation prizes are a joke. I personally hate door prizes and think they are an absolute waste of time and money. If the only reason someone is coming to a match is so they can take home a participation prize, they are there for the wrong reason. This is competitive shooting and people want to be competitive. Celebrate the winners! That is why we have classes! Give good prizes for the MW and the first several places in each class. If you want to win something, shoot better! Give me a break, you want to reward someone for crummy shooting? That really makes the guys that have worked hard to improve want to come back... As far as cash prizes, a lot of people like those better than yet another 3rd place AA plaque. Y
[/quote]


You are arguing for and against participation trophies in your same paragraph. You want to give to the top few places and skip the rest....why? Why isn't it winner takes-all?

Celebrate winners (your quote)........There is only one winner. The person in 2nd place is the first loser, no different than the last loser. Why should loser number one, two and three get something and loser # 34 get jack? Neither won anything. they all lost

Am I saying that everyone should get something, no....but then again, giving all your losers participants something like a silicon wipe cloth isn't the end of the world either. Go to your local short track (dirt or asphalt) and watch the car races; even the last place driver gets a few bucks. Is that socialism that the track gave them some sort of money?
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