BPCR Matches

Talk with other Shiloh Sharps shooters.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

SSShooter
Posts: 2910
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
Location: Jersey Shore

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by SSShooter »

Well said, sackett.
Have not been to a match where winners during the drawings complained and refused their prize. Barrels, boxes, powder, sights, wads, lube, etc., etc. always seem to be much appreciated.
Well........... that's not quite correct. When a competitor at the SE Regional won the drawing for the Shiloh gift certificate two years in a row he 'paid it forward' and refused to accept the rifle. Very stand of him, but that's who he is (who shall remain nameless), though am sure that some here think him a 'sucker'.
Glenn
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by jackrabbit »

Sackett, you and I don't obviously don't agree. We have classes in BPCR silhouette and target rifle in an effort to group those of similar skill levels together, so there are definitely class winners, besides the overall match winner.

Every friggin sport there is awards prizes for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc and nobody gives a hoot about the bottom guys. You ever notice the Olympics, bronze, silver, and gold? I cant' say as I saw anything given to the rest of the bunch. That is why it is called a CONTEST. Sorry, but your loser #2 is way more worthy of being rewarded than loser #34. We are not going to reward the losers, sorry. If they would like to win something, they need to shoot better. It takes effort and work in order to shoot well and the prizes go to those that have put the effort into improving. This idea that some are just blessed natural shots and it comes easy to them is bullshit. The superior marksman that I know have all put tons of time, money, and sweat into getting to where they are. You think it is right to give them minimal acknowledgment, and spend match assets worrying about the guy that did nothing? Unbelievable all you old balls constantly bitch about millennials and blame their strange ways on the "participation prize" culture they were brought up in, then think it is a good idea to run shooting contests the same way. By the way, if I wanted a "silicon wiping cloth" I would buy one for myself. I would just as soon the match kept the money and did something worth while with it rather than waste it on me.

I have a solution, I'll just keep doing things my way. You go ahead and build a range, organize matches, put on some state, regional, and national championships. We will come back in a few years, compare notes, and see who's plan had the best success.

Good luck to you, Cody
Michael Johnson

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Michael Johnson »

I agree with Cody. Each class has a winner. Second place is first loser, third place is second loser etc. Aspire to be the first place guy, nothing else matters.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by mdeland »

Natural gifting and physical conditioning are a major part of the reason some folks are regular winners or high placers . To imply it only requires lots of effort is both naive and illogical. Yes, winners have to work hard but it is more than effort alone that makes them good shots.
A true statement about good shooting is that it is 90 percent mental but there is also a very important physical component working in tandem without which the mental can never produce a winner by itself.
Some folks can put every bit as much effort into the game but are never going to be first place shooters. They keep shooting for the love of the sport,personal challenge and camaraderie, they don't have to have the prizes or accolades to keep coming. They are the real hero's and life support of our shooting heritage in my opinion. We all love a winner but it is the faithful , persistent "blue collar"shooters that keep us afloat, so it makes sense to treat them with some respect and some reward.
It makes sense and is good promotion to have participation prizes for those who are never going to win anything by their shooting abilities.
sackett
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 8:26 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by sackett »

[quote=jackrabbit post_id=330829 time=1630540469 user_id=137087]
Sackett, you and I don't obviously don't agree. We have classes in BPCR silhouette and target rifle in an effort to group those of similar skill levels together, so there are definitely class winners, besides the overall match winner.

Every friggin sport there is awards prizes for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc and nobody gives a hoot about the bottom guys. You ever notice the Olympics, bronze, silver, and gold? I cant' say as I saw anything given to the rest of the bunch. That is why it is called a CONTEST. Sorry, but your loser #2 is way more worthy of being rewarded than loser #34. We are not going to reward the losers, sorry. If they would like to win something, they need to shoot better. It takes effort and work in order to shoot well and the prizes go to those that have put the effort into improving. This idea that some are just blessed natural shots and it comes easy to them is bullshit. The superior marksman that I know have all put tons of time, money, and sweat into getting to where they are. You think it is right to give them minimal acknowledgment, and spend match assets worrying about the guy that did nothing? Unbelievable all you old balls constantly bitch about millennials and blame their strange ways on the "participation prize" culture they were brought up in, then think it is a good idea to run shooting contests the same way. By the way, if I wanted a "silicon wiping cloth" I would buy one for myself. I would just as soon the match kept the money and did something worth while with it rather than waste it on me.

I have a solution, I'll just keep doing things my way. You go ahead and build a range, organize matches, put on some state, regional, and national championships. We will come back in a few years, compare notes, and see who's plan had the best success.

Good luck to you, Cody
[/quote]

You still aren't getting it. The shooter who came in 2nd, he lost. He is your first loser..... Period. What makes him deserving of a participation award? He wasn't good enough to win, so why award him? So he will come back? Giving an award to the person that finished 34th with subpar equipment because that is all be can afford is more deserving than someone with top equipment who could only finish 3rd. You talk about "participation prize culture" and yet you are doing it; lock, stock and barrel. Actually even worse because you have multiple classes......You are giving out prizes to more than the winner.

What other sport besides the feel-good Olympics and shooting sports, gives out medals and awards to people or teams that finished in 2nd or 3rd or 34th place? None. Did you see the awards and trophies the World Series losers got after being swept? I ask because I missed it. The same go for any other sport, from auto racing to billiards to table tennis. What prize did the runner up at the Indy 500 get, besides a big check? Nothing. Oh, and that last place finish at Indy, he won 100k. I guess that blows your theory of out the window that only the top couple people get anything. Nice try though.

What does building a range and putting on championships have to do with if the 4th place or 34th place person should get something? Or are you just grasping at straws?

Fact is, you haven't a leg to stand with your argument because, like I have stated (and you as well), you are giving prizes to more than just the winner, you are giving prizes to the losers.... So where do you draw the line as to how many losers will get a prize? Is it 3rd place or 5th place or maybe the top 10 or top 15? What is your line for where a trophy ends, and what criteria is it based on? Or is it a feel good criteria? Your excuse/reasoning will be no different than the government's idea that 10 rounds in a mag is enough.....a crock of crap.
Kurt
Posts: 8428
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Kurt »

I look at door prizes as the club or match director saying thank you for joining us at this match.
I would think the company giving a rifle or scope, barrel or what ever it was given to the same shooter good shooter being the match director or just the same regular attending shooter filling his/her safe I think this would end the donations for the high end like a rifle or what ever.
I don't shoot for door or the rifle that might be on the table I go to enjoy my shooting hobby and I drive thousands of miles each year attending several and I'm far from a good shooter, I had my days in the sun and my boxes in the basement are full of dust collectors but I prize each and every one in that box and the special once in the cabinet.
And I will shake the hand the person that whooped me and also the person I whooped.
Saying the lesser shooter or looser don't mean squad, could this attitude be why the BPCR matches are declining ??
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Glen Ring »

Well Crap...I guess I'll need to quit shooting. My wife and I shoot together, like we garden together, exercise together..etc. We shoot for a personal best score and to keep our shooting skills alive and well. If we win something well that's cool. If we place 3rd we are not losers, we are happy folks shooting a match. If we end up last ( and we all have at one time or another ) then we make note of the mistakes we made and strive not to make them again.

Every GREAT shooter I have known has wanted to help anyone shoot as good as they do...not refer to them as losers and I would never want my 13 year old grandson to be called a 1st place loser if he takes second at a match.

Good shooting takes practice and hard work, but some folks are gifted with great eyes that let them excel..Like the GREAT Lon Pennington. You won't meet a nicer fellow. Some folks cannot afford all the fancy equipment and practice that others enjoy...they compete against like skilled folks .

Most of my adult life was dedicated 24/7/365 to being better than the target of my efforts. A bud of mine was competitive every day of his career...a VERY exciting career at that, and now...shooting is relaxing. I hope no one sees us as losers for having fun and cutting up with our friends.

Some folks like to tournament fish...some folks just want to sit on the bank, watch a bobber and relax.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by jackrabbit »

Sackett, you need to put the crack pipe down. Giving a 2nd or 3rd place prize is not a participation prize. Damn near every contest I've ever heard of that has more than a few entries gives more than one prize. County fairs, rodeo, fishing, even the racing you keep talking about, you name it, they all have second place. Also, the reason I bring up putting on matches is to point out that you aint gonna do shit other than run your mouth on the internet.

Kurt, I never intended for it to be interpreted than people that don't place high don't matter. I meant that when people ask about the match, they ask who won, who was in the top 10 etc. Nobody asks who was 3rd from last. Their presence is important and valued, but they don't get a prize.

I am done with this thread. It is not going anywhere and it doesn't seem like anything useful has come from it. You all have fun giving each other silicone wiping cloths.
Cody
User avatar
desert deuce
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by desert deuce »

Anybody see the movie, Field of Dreams?

I think there was a message written into the screen play by the writer. Was pretty obvious actually. I am sure it had a lot more meaning to some folks than others. Regardless of how the observer looked at the screen play the most obvious factor was all those assembling on the field came there to play baseball, AND, when the game was over they left. Went their own way. Content to have been in the game. To have been a player was their reason for being there.

The sole gratification attendant on people that built the field was that they came to play. To play their dreams and the players dreams.

Looking at putting on a match could be something like that. Not so much that if you build it they will come but finding out what their dreams are so they will be compelled to come by their own nature of the fact that being a player is part of their nature and they come to shoot. And, if they have fun while enjoying a quality match and share the total experience with other like minded people where else could they go to do this? Which in turn could attract others to participate.

What is it about the Quigley that makes people want to go there year after year to shoot? Or do other considerations feed their dreams?

What are the features about a particular match that keeps people coming back? How does one identify and expand on the positives?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by mdeland »

I'm talking about some draw prizes that every one qualifies for by participating in the match. No one expects a prize for shooting beyond 3rd place.
User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7633
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Don McDowell »

I'm not convinced there's a "waning" interest in the bpcr shooting matches.
What there is tho is uncertainty in peoples minds bout the travel restrictions they may encounter, unrest in the population in general.
Never mind the component shortage. Primers danged hard to find. New shooters can buy a rifle, and everything that goes with it, except brass, primers and bullet moulds...
Looking at the prices on 22 ammo as it comes available, we may start to see "waning" interest in the 22 bpcr matches. Heck there are trap leagues all over the country that aren't running this year due to the lack of something as garden variety as shotgun ammunition.
Anybody else paid 4$ for diesel or 3.85 for gas?
Prizes. Most gong matches provide awards of some kind for the top 1 thru maybe 3rd place overall, high woman and high junior. The attendance seems to stay fairly consistent. I do like the way the NRA style matches award at least one place for each class. Heck they even did that way back in the very beginning in the 1800's.
Door prize drawings are nice, but given the current state of the economy and the way business's have been hard hit, asking for donations doesn't seem like a very good thing to do at the moment. With the inflated prices of goods now, a clubs money can only go so far, so unless some one can find a good buy on a case of silicon wiping cloth....
Sometimes match schedules don't square well with other matches, or other activities a person may have planned.
So my thoughts are if you want to go to a match then go. Go to shoot the best you can and have some fun. Go for the opportunity to spend some time shooting and visiting with like minded folks, and do the best you can.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by Glen Ring »

I agree with Don. I have an associate in Wyoming right NOW and they are reflecting gas prices of 3.50 to 4.50 depending on location.
Good 22 ammo is getting higher and Don's right, trying to get someone started in BPCR?? How the heck are they going to shoot with no ammo.

Air rifle is a cheap way to keep shooting.

BTW Don
My associate in Wyoming JUST reported a sub 40 degree start to their day !! I'm just a little jealous because today the temp will be 100 here and high humidity!
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
User avatar
DAVE ROELLE
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:30 am
Location: CONROE TEXAS

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by DAVE ROELLE »

Interesting , thanks Wayne for opening the original thinking of how to increase interest in this sport

I wonder if we have any professional marketing people in the ranks, might gain some real insight instead of hollow opinions

Just my observation , our club matches are really just get togethers for fun, gossip and some organized shooting.

These same club folks play to WIN in larger organized competitions, taking all the allowed steps they can to gain an advantage .

Dave
your never lost, if ya don't care where ya are
semtav
Posts: 2881
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Montana

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by semtav »

sackett wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:03 pm

What other sport besides the feel-good Olympics and shooting sports, gives out medals and awards to people or teams that finished in 2nd or 3rd or 34th place? None.
High school basketball is the first one that comes to mind
krgriggs
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: BPCR Matches

Post by krgriggs »

It’s up to the match director to get numbers up at their matches, know your locals and question the shooters who shoot with you! I added a modern category and at the last shoot the modern shooters out numbered the 22 bpcr shooters by a lot. I give out good awards at each match no money prizes, juniors shoot free!
Post Reply