.40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

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marlinman93
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.40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

Tried every search I could, and even those topics that specifically asked about chamber or reamer dimensions never got a straight answer to compare the two?
So I am asking what the differences are in reamers for the .40-70 Shiloh 2.5" and the original .40-70 SS chambers or reamers?
I read that the Shiloh .40-70 is based on blown out .30-40 Krag, or .303 British brass, but no mention of what neck OD is compared to the original .40-70SS? Also read the Shiloh uses .408" bullets, so does this mean a tighter neck OD, or what?
My original Hepburn and Rolling Block rifles in .40-70SS both use .405 Hornady brass just fine, and both slug the groove diameter at around .410" So does this mean I'd need different dies to size down my brass to fit a possibly smaller chamber in a Shiloh Sharps?
George Babits
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by George Babits »

I use both Hornady 405 brass and stretched 30-40 brass in my Shiloh 40-70 SS interchangably. I size my bullets to .410 diameter. My Shiloh is an older one made around 1986. I don't know if that would make a difference or not. My original "Assembled" Sharps in 40-70 SS actually is chambered for the 40-70 Ballard which has a slightly larger base diameter and a .415 groove diameter. I've used some BELL 40-70 brass in that successfully. Never tried the stretched 30-40 brass in it though. Most of my brass for that has been made from 9.3X74R Norma and RWS.

George
marlinman93
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

Mine is an original Hepburn in .40-70SS, that was relined about a decade ago. I've interchangeably used my .405 brass fired in both my original Ballard rifles in .40-70 Ballard, and my original rolling Block, or this relined and rechambered Hepburn.
The issue now is that after shooting my Hepburn occasionally with loads that worked fine in other guns, it one day developed extraction issues! I examined the cases and noticed it had a bulged chamber! Not ringed, just bulged on one side.
I'm having a friend sleeve the chamber to fix the bulge, and then he'll ream it again. But the only reamer he shows in his catalog is for the ".40-70 Shiloh 2.5" which I don't know anything about? I'm concerned whether it will be the same as before, and not be something I need to rework my brass, or maybe not use my Lyman dies to reload for?
I found references in my Lyman manual that show the Shiloh reamer being a .432" neck, while my Lyman manual shows the .40-70SS case neck to be .422" Also shows the original at 2.50" long, while the Shiloh shows as 2.44" long?
77 sharps
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by 77 sharps »

Look at the reamer drawing closely. The length of the body of the case will be 2.44” but does not include the rim. That leaves .060” for the rim. The Shiloh chamber is for bore diameter bullets and the Lyman drawing is for the original chamber that would use a bore diameter bullet, I believe. There should be a Shiloh reamer that will cut a chamber for bore diameter bullets. I would contact Manson about what you are looking for. But measure the necks of your fired cases and see what the OD of the necks are after firing. If you are shooting.408” bullets in your rifles, then the Shiloh reamer should be correct.
marlinman93
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

77 sharps wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:24 pm Look at the reamer drawing closely. The length of the body of the case will be 2.44” but does not include the rim. That leaves .060” for the rim. The Shiloh chamber is for bore diameter bullets and the Lyman drawing is for the original chamber that would use a bore diameter bullet, I believe. There should be a Shiloh reamer that will cut a chamber for bore diameter bullets. I would contact Manson about what you are looking for. But measure the necks of your fired cases and see what the OD of the necks are after firing. If you are shooting.408” bullets in your rifles, then the Shiloh reamer should be correct.
All my 5 guns in this caliber shoot a .410" or .411" grease groove bullet. I don't shoot paper patched, so that's groove diameter bullets.
I could order a reamer from Manson, but not sure I'd ever use it again, and I'd like to rent a reamer for $45 vs. buy one at $200 I wont use again.
77 sharps
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by 77 sharps »

If your bullet diameter is.410 and you add the .010” twice for the neck thickness, I get .430” OD. Measure one of your loaded rounds and see what the OD of the loaded round is. .010 is just a guess on the neck thickness, but I sounds like the Shiloh reamer will work at .432”.
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kenny sd
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by kenny sd »

I have both an original and a Shiloh that I had to duplicate it to shoot.
both 40 70 SS
the bore on the original is .403 while the Shiloh is .408
The Shiloh likes .409 GG and the original, which I no longer shoot, liked .403

here they are. Ken
IMG_2734 - Copy (3).JPG
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kenny sd
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by kenny sd »

OK. with more coffee. the bore on the Shiloh is 410. and I use a .409 bullet.
awake now... (not WOKE just awake)
marlinman93
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:17 pm
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

Thanks. I occasionally read others who had very small groove diameters in originals, and still others whose are like most of mine at larger groove like what it sounds like the Shiloh chamber has. So hopefully the reamer for the Shiloh is going to work out fine.
George Babits
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by George Babits »

My original 40-70 SS had a groov diameter of .414 or .415. I can't imaging a .403 bullet bumping up quite that much. The rifle has the Ballard 40-70 chamber which is slightly larger than the Sharps usually was.

George
marlinman93
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

Thanks George!
I love the guns I own where I can hand seat a bullet, so having a larger chamber that could accommodate this better would be great. The opposite can be a real issue! I own an original Hepburn Match B schuetzen rifle marked ".32-40 B&M" and that rifle has a .327" groove diameter! I couldn't even shoot it, as any case I could seat a .327".328" bullet in wont chamber. I had Jerry Cleave build me a Schoyen style breech seating tool for it, and then had my Saeco .32-40 mold opened up to a .328" base band so I can breech seat the bullets, and shoot it. It's extremely accurate shooting it now, and I actually learned to enjoy the breech seating bullet process.
Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Bore is .400.

Groove is .408.

Good lord guy kennysd. Ignorance among supposedly knowledgeable shooters. This is how stupidly is passed along.

Kenny Wasserburger.
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
marlinman93
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by marlinman93 »

Kenny Wasserburger wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:49 pm Bore is .400.

Groove is .408.

Good lord guy kennysd. Ignorance among supposedly knowledgeable shooters. This is how stupidly is passed along.

Kenny Wasserburger.
Thanks Kenny. Those are the barrel dimensions, but my original question was regarding chamber dimensions.
77 sharps
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Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by 77 sharps »

marlinman93
I re-read my first post. I accidentally typed that Shiloh is chambered for bore diameter bullets when I should have typed groove diameter. Sorry for the confusion. That Shiloh reamer should work just fine. You also were concerned about loading dies. Your existing dies should work with the new chamber too.
Kenny Wasserburger
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Location: Gillette, Wyoming

Re: .40-70 Shiloh vs. .40-70 SS dimensions?

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Marlinman, my response was to kennySD, and not yourself sorry for the confusion.

KW
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
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