Torque

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VenisonRX
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:29 am
Location: Mayflower, Arkansas

Torque

Post by VenisonRX »

Torque is something I’ve read a lot on this forum but only that it’s a thing and it’s more prevalent in the 50 calibers. Not much is said about how to tell if you’re suffering from it or what to do about it. That being said I can’t help but wonder if perhaps I might be falling victim to it. Was doing some research on a different topic when I came across that word again and it got me to thinking.

What I’ve been noticing is that my off hand shooting has been better than my bench which seems counterintuitive. I haven’t tried for groups off hand yet but my range has a 100 yard gong that’s about a 10in circle. I typically have no trouble hitting it with what I’d call maybe a 4in group. On paper from the bench same distance though my groups are about 6in. Im in the early stages of load development and was testing out a new front sight so a big group isn’t a problem yet. This is for a 50-70 carbine and the original sight was so short it was hitting about 4 feet high. Got it where it needs to be now. I’m using 450gr bullets and 65gr of 2f powder.

Could the discrepancy be because of torque? My guess is it’s possible since if I’m off hand I’m holding onto the gun a little tighter than from a bench where I let it’s weight do more of the work. If so what would be the signs other than lousy groups? What is a way to control it? Just hold on tight seems too simple an answer but I’m not above simple. The rifle appears to recoil straight back. It would make sense that since the bullet starts to twist that the gun should want to twist opposite of it a little just don’t know how to tell if it’s the issue.
—Tom
semtav
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Location: Montana

Re: Torque

Post by semtav »

We covered this subject in great detail last winter. After much discussion, testing and further discussion, it was concluded that the gun definitely torques either cw or ccw !
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VenisonRX
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Location: Mayflower, Arkansas

Re: Torque

Post by VenisonRX »

Sorry I didn’t see that thread. Most of the ones I have seen just mention that it happens without much further info about it. Not denying it happens. Curious to learn more about it and how to compensate.
—Tom
77 sharps
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:45 pm
Location: N. CA

Re: Torque

Post by 77 sharps »

If you are trying to shoot the carbine using front and rear sandbags and the technics that are used with a modern bolt rifle, this could be your problem. The carbine has a lot more drop in the stock and combining that with the increased bullet and ejecta weight as well as the increased barrel time makes shooting off bags more difficult. Try using the front bag as a wrist rest and hold the butt against the shoulder and grip the fore end firmly while shooting. This should reduce your group size greatly.
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powderburner
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Location: elko nv.

Re: Torque

Post by powderburner »

Could be as simple as the rifle swats your jaw more from the bench.
50s twist into your cheek on the right and away on the left.
You probably roll with the punch better offhand as the resistance is less.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
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desert deuce
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Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: Torque

Post by desert deuce »

Oh, and don't try to hold on too tight to the 50-140, however, if you really want to experience torque....go for it.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
bobw
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Torque

Post by bobw »

To some degree I disagree you don't notice the torque in a 50-140 as much as a 50-2.5".But you do feel the recoil. Reason is the 140's were built with a slower twist 1 in 36 using 473 -550 grain bullets while 50 2.5" today are for the most part twisted tight 1 in 22 and1 in 26 at c. Sharps so people could successfully shoot really big bullets to 700+ grains I believe the tight twist and heavy bullets cause the torque not recoil. My own 50-2.5" has the slower twist. Kirk still has the equipment for slower twist 50 cal barrels but you have to discuss it with him. bobw
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powderburner
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Re: Torque

Post by powderburner »

Bob is spot on here.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
sandhillcowboy1
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:36 pm

Re: Torque

Post by sandhillcowboy1 »

I agree with Bob as well. Also they were talking about the thoughts of faster twist increasing recoil in the late 1870's as well. I have shot Bob's 50/140 and agree it has a thump but I do not recall the torque being bothersome.

Rick
SHCB1
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