and what's up with paper patched bullets?

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

I call BS to most of the replies.

I can shoot 20 shots using the barrel sights, no blow tube or wiping, and achieve great hunting accuracy using paper patched bullets. Just this past Saturday I went through the paces shooting from 70-110 yards from all hunting positions, sitting, kneeling, standing, etc.........all 20 including the first shot out of a clean barrel went into the black bull of a 50 yard pistol target. The 1st three shots were with no blowing down the barrel, after that two blows down the barrel between shots was plenty to keep chambering and shooting. This was the second 20 shot test in the last 3 weeks. Similar results both times. 1874 Sharps rifles were MADE to shoot paper patch bullets.

Try to do that with grease groove bullets.

That is the reason I shoot paper patch bullets for hunting with my Sharps rifle.

Good luck, Barvid

[Don McDowell]

Barvid, try some of the Olde Eysnford with your patched. I took 50 rounds of the Old West 444 bullet wrapped in 8 lb, fired the entire Quigley course with the ladder sights on my #3 , plus Charlie Romaine fired the last half dozen in the box at the offhand targets, overall averaged about 50% hits, and the only cleaning patch that rifle saw during that little torture test was when we got back to camp when the ammo was gone...
Advantages to patched?? Nawwww..

[Kurt]

Barvid.

One can shoot "dirty" and hold accuracy needed for hunting for many rounds fired. I shoot "dirty" quite a bit, but I do not use the bullets and loads I use for matches. If you want to be able to load and shoot with out tubing or wiping you use a patched bullet and load that will let you do this. I shoot ring bullets as well as PP with just about the same results, I give the PP a greater edge holding the accuracy because with the ring bullets they start pulling lead and that blows the accuracy.
I have a catalog that has a breakdown of cases of loaded rounds of PP and channellured ring naked bullets that the sharps company sent just to Kansas alone.

Kurt

[pete]

Kurt;
That catalog sounds interesting. Would you mind listing just a few examples of paper and grooved ammunition shipped ?

[Kurt]

Pete,

It will take a while. The books are in the camper and the camper is at a RV repair shop.
But I will get it when I get the thing back home.

Kurt

[pete]

Kurt;
Thanks, that'll be great. Appreciate it.

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Don,

Thanks for the suggestions on the powder, however I am going to stck with EXACTLY whats been working lately. I mean no disrespect, but the darn load I copied works so good I am scared to change anything. If I can get within 125 yards of A 500LB hog this winter, Iam going to give a report on bullet performance. My bullet is 1.25" long fired from RP cases with a lube cookie. It works scary good.

Kurt, I know what you mean about hunting vs match. I have a Jones Semi Spitzer that cast at .453 and patches to .4575, and it shoots well with wiping. It makes confetti if you know what I mean. I don't shoot it in matches because it doesn't shoot as well as my other stuff and I hate wiping between shots.

Orville is right, NOTHING cleans up as easy as rifle that has been using a good paper patched load, 2 wet, fold 2nd patch and push tight, dry it and oil it, done cleaning.

Maybe the OP will read this and understand WHY some of us shoot paper patch bullets,

Best, Barvid

[semtav]

I know this was the way 'things were done' back in the hide hunting days...But, other than authenticity, is there any reason to mess with them today? Venturino, in 'Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West' indicates that there is not. Interesting, yes, fun to play with, yes, but more accurate than grease grooves? nope. Are there any real advantages to paper patched? If you are not M. Quigley loading up a bunch of .45-110s to deal with Marston and his thugs is there any real reason to use paper patch?

Oldmac,
Not sure if you even come here anymore, but I for one think your original question was legitimate.
A simple but very politically incorrect answer would have summed it all up in a nutshell. " Mike Venturino was wrong
Look at the copyright of the book you were referring to. Mike probably wrote that some years ago and at that time not enough people may have been experimenting with accurate paperpatch loads for him to come to any other conclusion. I don't know if he still holds that opinion, but that is the problem with putting a statement like that in written form. Some one may come back to prove you wrong.
I won't take up anymore bandwidth about where paperpatching should be your BPCR learning curve, but if you are on a quest for the most accurate load you can develop for long range shooting, it should be there. Just looking at some of the long range results prove that.

[jackrabbit]

I went through and re-read MLV's chapter on paper patching and I don't think he was wrong. He said someday someone would win major events with paper patched bullets, it just wouldn't be him. At the time of the writing of the book MLV (and most of the BPCR community) was mostly interested in silhouettes. Greasers still appear to be ruling that game. I am not sure which statement you are referring to that you refer to being wrong. I am not picking a fight, just enjoying the debate. I think paper patches are great and I look forward to the day that I start using them. Historically, they apparently were superior to greasers as nearly all of the really good shooting was done with them. I am new to the game and still trying to master a few of the hundred other variables in BPCR before I start looking for another.
Take care, Cody

[Don McDowell]

Cody greasers are relatively simple, there's not a lot of hard stuff to figure out. It's all been done, and most anybody can take brand x rifle,case,powder bullet etc, and come up with a load accurate enough to shoot sillouette. Paper patch is a bit different and can really be gun specific. Paper patch also takes a bit more attention to detail on the fouling control, altho with some of the things that folks have rediscovered about using patched bullets, keeping the gun and load operating in good enough condition for a bank of sillouette isn't the problem that many who haven't messed with patched think it is.
When a person gets into the paper patch thing and discovers the combo that makes a rifle really hum along it's sort of hard to go back to shooting greasers, especially once it finally dawns on you how simple cleaning the gun after the match really is . And after you realize how quick it really is to wrap those bullets, no more messing with the lubrisizer/pan lube, wiping bases, wiping noses, and the excess that sqooshes of onto the cases.... You'll find your self sitting at the loading bench staring at those buckets full of carefully cast grooved bullets and thinking "ya know I really ought to do something with those one of these days" as you grab your container of precut patches and start rolling.

[Kurt]

Yeh and a lot of those grooved lubed bullets go back into the melting pot pre fluxed

[SHARPSSHOOTER5090]

KIRK
PLEASE DELETED ME AS A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM. AS I HAVE BEEN READING THE VARIOUS TOPICS AND THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD PREFER TO RESPOND TO A LEGITIMATE QUESTION WITH SARCASM, INSULTS AND EXTREMELY ONE SIDED OPINIONS BASED ON VERY LITTLE REAL KNOWLEDGE THAN TO TRY TO HELP SOMEONE OUT. I WANT KNOW PART OF OF IT.

SHARPSSHOOTER5090

[jackrabbit]

KIRK
PLEASE DELETED ME AS A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM. AS I HAVE BEEN READING THE VARIOUS TOPICS AND THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD PREFER TO RESPOND TO A LEGITIMATE QUESTION WITH SARCASM, INSULTS AND EXTREMELY ONE SIDED OPINIONS BASED ON VERY LITTLE REAL KNOWLEDGE THAN TO TRY TO HELP SOMEONE OUT. I WANT KNOW PART OF OF IT.

SHARPSSHOOTER5090

Whatever Dude.....

[Lumpy Grits]

KIRK
PLEASE DELETED ME AS A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM. AS I HAVE BEEN READING THE VARIOUS TOPICS AND THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE PEOPLE THAT WOULD PREFER TO RESPOND TO A LEGITIMATE QUESTION WITH SARCASM, INSULTS AND EXTREMELY ONE SIDED OPINIONS BASED ON VERY LITTLE REAL KNOWLEDGE THAN TO TRY TO HELP SOMEONE OUT. I WANT KNOW PART OF OF IT.

SHARPSSHOOTER5090

Have another drink-

[SHARPSSHOOTER5090]

Kirk

At the advice of some other forum member leave me on for now.

Sharpsshooter5090