50 twist rates

[Sarge]

With all the different twist rates in 50 cal's, 1-22, 1-26, 1-36, is there a standard twist rate that is installed unless otherwise specified?

[Todd Birch]

My Shiloh Farmingdale Military Rifle has the historic 1x36" twist, too slow for 600 gr bullets. My current 50-70 carbine has 1x26", but one session with 600 gr bullets caused me to sell the mould! The twist in the carbine is LH, BTW.

Talk to Kirk and tell him your intended use for the rifle.

[Orville]

1-34 is what I found in original 50 2 1/2 rifles i've seen 50-70 with 1-48 and 1/38. 1-36 works in my 50-70. And my 50 2 1/2

[Todd Birch]

I believe that Croft Barker reports a 1x42" twist in Remington NY State Militia 50-70's. I think it was the same for the Allin conversions. I should check his books.

In the Farmingdale MR I mentioned, 600gr bullets were tumbling past 50 to 75 yds. I was shooting some plastic milk jugs and that key-holing bullet was devastating on them! At 100 yds I was lucky to hit them.

That's when I decided to focus on the Lyman 515141 as my 50-70 bullet. Works for me .....

[J.B.]

I'm sure Kirk will help with any enquiries but I believe the current, default Shiloh twist is 1/22". They have a 1/36" option if requested. I ordered my 50 x 2 1/2 with the 1/22" twist and I ordered a 50/70 Govt with the 1/36" twist. They both work extremely well but if I was ordering a 50 x 2 1/2" again I'd probably go with the 1/36" and back off my bullet weight to a more traditional 470 - 500 grns . If you're determined to shoot the longer, heavier 50 cal bullets that are in the 650-700 + grn category then there are benefits in the 1/22" . If not, I think you'll be more than happy with a 1/36" and you won't be dealing with the level of torque that those bigger bullets can generate in a fast twist.
jmo.

Gavin.

[Sarge]

Many thanks guys, Merry Christmas too all.

[Todd Birch]

In a couple of articles I read recently on ROT, they disproved the theory that a fast twist would "over stabilize" lighter bullets. Not so. Rifles in several calibres shot light bullets from fast twist barrels quite well.

The reverse seems to bear out that heavier bullets need a faster ROT.

[Orville]

Twist rate also depends on what your are using for, if you are wiping between shots it really dosn't matter. The ODG used the slowest twist that would stabilize the bullet they intended to shoot, fouling control was taken into account, fast second shots or just shooting. That is a major reason the military used the 1-22 twist in the 45-70 trapdoors they tried faster twists but the 1-22 did every thing but with less fouling problems.

[Todd Birch]

The original post was regarding the ROT for .50 calibre rifles, not 45-70. 1x22" in a 45-70 is a hell of a lot faster than 1x42" in a .50.

I've owned a RB that had the Numrich octagonal barrel installed. It had a 1x22" ROT and shot like a hot damn. Recoil with the crescent butt was brutal, but It's one of those rifles I should have kept.

[SharpsShooter2B]

I'm sure Kirk will help with any enquiries but I believe the current, default Shiloh twist is 1/22". They have a 1/36" option if requested. I ordered my 50 x 2 1/2 with the 1/22" twist and I ordered a 50/70 Govt with the 1/36" twist. They botwah work extremely well but if I was ordering a 50 x 2 1/2" again I'd probably go with the 1/36" and back off my bullet weight to a more traditional 470 - 500 grns . If you're determined to shoot the longer, heavier 50 cal bullets that are in the 650-700 + grn category then there are benefits in the 1/22" . If not, I think you'll be more than happy with a 1/36" and you won't be dealing with the level of torque that those bigger bullets can generate in a fast twist.
jmo.

Gavin.

Is the default (non-traditional) 1/22" allowed in bplr matches? I have a Shiloh 50 x 3 1/4 with 1/36" twist - great for light weight higher velocity hunting loads but I would like to buy a Shiloh 50 x 2 1/2 for long range targets. The faster twist is necessary to get the heavier, lower velocity loads to compete with the 45's; heavier (higher BC) and slower = much less wind drift and drift variation in variable crosswinds. The 50 x 2 1/2 would keep the velocity below the horrible wind drift that occurs above 1200 (worst is 1400) and the 3 1/4
can't get a heavy bullet up to 1800 to start reducing wind drift.

[J.B.]

I'm not aware of all the rulings for Long Range but from what I've read and been advised along the way, restrictions usually apply to the cartridge/ chambering itself and not to the rifling of a particular barrel. Don't quote me on this though as its just my understanding. You'll be able to shoot out to 1000 yds and more with a 1/36" twist , using traditional weight bullets in the 470 - 500 grn . You'll be putting up with less recoil, a lot less torque and still be having a lot of fun. If you want to shoot the longer and heavier 650-700+ bullets then you'd best run with the 1/22". Over the longer distances, for target work, especially in strong winds then I'd probably give the nod to the larger bullets as they have more mass and aren't quite as easy for the wind to move. The 1/36" will do it also but you may have to put more work into reading the conditions. If its the bigger bullets at longer ranges you're after ..then the 1/22" may be the better bet. As you already shoot a 50 x 3 1/4" you probably don't need to know any of this but... get the rifle as heavy as you are comfortable having it and make sure it has a pistol grip . I'm no 6'5" marine and my 12 lb Saddle rifle was quite challenging to hang onto with 700 grn bullets and 100 + grains of powder until I added a pistol grip.

J.B.

[SharpsShooter2B]

Thank You J.B. for responding!!
I asked about twist because the NRA BPCR rules mention "normal variations in brass, primers, bore sizes, rifling styles, TWIST and
chamber dimensions". If by NORMAL they mean traditional 19th century variation in twist rates, then I can't use Kirk's 1/22" 50 cal
default twist rate for competition. That would be sad because the more traditional 1/36" twist rate can't compete against ANY black
powder long range cartridge; the BC of 50 cal bullets under 650 grs or so, is so low and the velocity in transonic range makes the
lag-time (wind drift) so high that a small change in crosswind would move the point of impact OFF the 1000 yrd target.
Your 700 grn with 100grns bp would be PERFECT in 1/22"!!!!!! Possibly impossible to be beaten by any other Sharps cartridge
And the recoil wouldn't be bad in my 9.5 lb Shiloh business rifle (I've shot a 515 grn gg bullet at over 1950 fps with smokeless with
recoil not worth mentioning; of course I wouldn't want to complete a match - but 700grns with 100grs bp could be shot all day.

Soooo, how can I find out if actual range masters allow .50 2 1/2 with a 1/22" twist rate before I spend several thousand dollars for
another fine Shiloh?

Good shooting,
Andy

[J.B.]

S.S.2B... I'd be guessing that 'normal variations'... allows for different manufacturers specifications for a given chambering. Badger barrels are generally 1/26" and have been used in C.Sharps and Miroku/Winchester BPCR's. Shiloh just happens to have settled on 1/22". 45's would run the gamut from 1/16 or faster up past 1/22 for those that choose. 40's open up another range of twists. Personally I wouldn't get caught up too much in bc, sectional density etc. Its pretty clear we all at times tend to 'over think' this sport and pastime. Wouldn't be in such a hurry to discount the 1/36" either. Having shot a gong match last year with a 28" barrelled 50/70 Shiloh shooting a 468 grn Accurate Moulds bullet and it shot pretty well. Getting me a second place against quite a few 45/90's with longer barrels. It was sporting a 1/36" twist. I'll grant you the bullet strike and sound return took a while ..but it got there. It was a good day for me not so much for some others ...but doesn't that factor into every match I'm sure someone on this forum will probably be able to clear up any grey area with regard the rules but I think you'll be fine with 1/22". jmo.
J.B.

[Kurt]

Andy.

The .50-2.5 with a 1/22 ROT will drive a 700 gr bullet well past 1300 fps. to make pit safety. Ask Jim Kidwell if he will allow it at the Nationals.
I shot the .50-2.5 for many years at gong matches past 1000 yards and it does that job really well at the extended ranges if you can tolerate the recoil and control the rifle. I placed 13th in 09 and 14th 2010 at the Q using the .50 in some pretty tough winds. The 50 will hold it's own if you can handle it.
Your pit man might not like it and you might get slow pit service because the spotter markers have small pins that just wont stay in the holes and he might have to jump down on the ground picking the markers up
Don't ask me how I know this and the pastors are to small to cover the holes with out pushing your finger through

[Stephen Borud]

Sarge I only have experience with the 1/36 twist in my 50-70 and 50 2 1/2 both are paper patch only guns. They both shoot very well for hunting. Fouling is easily maintain over a long period time and after multiple shots.

Stephen