loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

[lrb]

Like I said. Blow up was not the fault of smokeless, but rather the wrong smokeless and or the wrong load. People blow up modern designed guns pretty regular because they think they know better than the people who make and test the powders. When I ordered my Shiloh around 1990, I talked at length with Shiloh's owner about smokeless loads. He told me the Shiloh Sharps was plenty strong enough to handle smokeless loads, and as someone else already mentioned, the equal of the Ruger #1. I am a tad skeptical about that, but if not the equal, very damn close. My side arm is a three screw Ruger, 45 LC. I don't shoot BP in it either. Just my opinion, but some people here seem to take a rather elitist attitude about others choices in what and how they like to shoot, and if cornered, try to justify their opinions with exaggerated examples.

[jackrabbit]

I would suggest that these "elitist attitudes" come from trying to repeatedly explain that black powder is the best propellant to be used in these large cases. It gives the best long range accuracy, is the safest, and is the most fun. So many folks will not even try it as they have a bunch of incorrect, preconceived ideas about how messy shooting black powder is and how hard it is to make it shoot well. I agree with your statements about it being the wrong powder or loading technique that causes blow ups, but the fact is that when some new, first time shooting their sharps fellow shows up at a match with smokeless loads, it makes everyone dang nervous. I just can't help but feel that if you are using smokeless powder in your Sharps, you just don't really get the true essence of the game. Do as you like, but I still think you are a dumb ass if you insist on using smokeless....
take care, Cody

[bobw]

ooh Cody don't beat around the bush so much bobw

[bobw]

ooh Cody don't don't beat around the bush so much bobw

[jackrabbit]

I learned my how to be so delicate from my friend Bob!

[lrb]

Just for the record, I've been shooting black powder for 47 years. Only I shoot it in flintlock muzzle loaders. I have built a few long rifles myself, so I am no stranger to black powder. It is my business what I want to shoot in My rifle, and if you haven't tried long range with smokeless, how do you know BP is better? As for you two, you a$$holes both can take your expanded egos, and go f*#k yourselves, or each other if you prefer.

[bobw]

Hey ,Irb my reply was addressed to Cody but to clear the air... I still agree with his assessment. bobw

[77 sharps]

Irb
I agree that you can shoot any kind of powder in your rifle that you wish. Where the problem comes in, is when you take your 19th century rifle and cartridge loaded with 20th century powder to a club or public range, that is where I have a problem. I have never met some one loading smokeless powder into a BP cartridge that wasn't an expert on it. But what gets them into trouble isn't what they don't know, but what they know for sure, that just isn't so, to paraphrase Mark Twain. These guys always seem so happy to tell any one who will listen how they shoot sub MOA groups and how much the wad helps their accuracy. They are putting the well being of everyone around them at risk, and even the entire range. Insurance companies don't like paying out million dollar claims and a range loosing it's insurance is certain death for a range.

[mrhunterken]

You can shoot all the smokeless powder you want, in your Sharps rifles. Just don't do it next to me!!!

[BFD]

You can shoot all the smokeless powder you want, in your Sharps rifles. Just don't do it next to me!!!

Why? Would you run from a shooter using smokeless in a Ruger #1 in .45-70? If so, do you run faster if the shooter is using a #1 in 7mm mag or .300 H&H or any other smokeless cartridge?

[77 sharps]

Hi Brent
In Kens defense, he did mention a Sharps rifle. Some one shooting a No. 1 is most likely using a reasonably full case of 4198 or 3031. Neither uses an over powder wad. If the load seemed mild I would strike up a conversation and find out if the load included a over powder wad. If it did I would move down a few benches. A guy shooting a Sharps rifle is likely to be using a reduced load, inviting a over powder wad. The 7mm and .300 H&H are both nitro rifles and a over powder wad would be rare and hard to do. On the other hand, if the guy is shooting a 03, I might move down a few benches.

[lrb]

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Postby Lee Stone » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:13 pm
I am, of course, not Kirk. However, I am a devoted fan of Sharps (Shiloh Sharps in particular) and of using real gunpowder. However, that is because I happen to enjoy blackpowder. I think you would be depriving your self of a marvelous rifle if you did not get a Shiloh Sharps. Shoot in it what you want and what gives you pleasure. If blackpowder is not your thing, that is no one's business but yours. The Shiloh Sharps has a very strong action. Most of us use blackpowder because that is what we prefer to use, not what we have to use. So why not indulge yourself and go ahead and get what in my very biased opinion is the best rifle in the world, and then enjoy it the way you enjoy bes


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Postby Rickd » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:52 pm
Butch. There are a lot of people shooting Shiloh rifles using almost exclusively smokeless powder. 4198 and several other powders, including Vihtavouri. The load you develop depends on what your use will be. Hunting, target shooting, plinking. You don't need to shoot 540 grain bullets at 1,000 yard targets to have fun. Some people like to. Others hunt with 420 grain bullets, and shoot 50-100 yard targets. It's a beautiful, very well made rifle, with a great family business providing a unique, friendly and helpful customer support. This forum is but one example. Get the Shiloh, enjoy it's beauty, and shoot it the way you enjoy shooting. Have fun.


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Postby Kirk » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:06 am
Hi Butch, these guys have pretty well summed it up, their are a lot more customers burning smokeless in these guns than black. Do what ever makes you happy, and the gun will be happy to. Thanks Kirk

Foolish me. I came on this board believing it's members would be friendly, informative, and helpful if needed. Some of you are decent folks, but far too many seem to have very narrow minds, elitist attitudes, and seem to cling together in a cyber version of a clique. Some of you think that your opinions equal fact, and the opinions of others cannot be worthy of anything. Jackrabbit/jackoff, whatever you go by, your entire post was just your opinion, and nothing more. You cannot prove any one statement you made. Essence of the game? What game? I didn't buy my rifle to play games. I bought it to shoot and hunt with. It is my business if I want to hunt with a heavy Sharps, and I ain't asking you to carry it for me. Calling someone a dumbass because they don't agree with your reasons to own a Sharps. Wow. that's real classy. 77 sharps. I don't use wads. There is no reason to use wads. Why would anyone load with a wad? I have no idea what you mean by "expert" on loading smokeless. You make it sound derogatory. I am a reloader. Something wrong with that? If you are that afraid of a smokeless 45-70, maybe you need to stay at home and hide under your bed. An '03?? I assume you mean a 1903 30-06 Springfield? Oh my God, I have one of those dangerous guns too. Should it be locked away for everyones safety? Should I be afraid of it? Mister, you are a joke. I would bet you are a Kalefornian. Well, I've had my say for now. Adios

[jackrabbit]

Talk about thin skinned! Why would you get so offended over a simple discussion? What I said is exactly what you said it was AN OPINION. I have my right to mine just like you do yours. I think you are wrong, and you apparently think I am as well. So be it, no reason to get all pissed off and start telling everybody to go f*ck themselves.
You try and have a nice day, Cody Smith

[BobG]

can a shiloh sharps .45/70 be loaded with smokeless powder propellent? i have loaded bp for this rifle ,but would like to experiment with pp bullets and smokeless.

This 1½ year old thread has got a little off topic.

I don’t post here but I have lurked and learned for 8 years now.
That said, I believe I could get away with calling a good friend a “dumb ass”, depending on context.
But walking up to a complete stranger and saying the same would most likely get me beat to a pulp and deservedly so.
It seems to me that there should be some apologies and all should agree to disagree.

[jackrabbit]

can a shiloh sharps .45/70 be loaded with smokeless powder propellent? i have loaded bp for this rifle ,but would like to experiment with pp bullets and smokeless.

This 1½ year old thread has got a little off topic.

I don’t post here but I have lurked and learned for 8 years now.
That said, I believe I could get away with calling a good friend a “dumb ass”, depending on context.
But walking up to a complete stranger and saying the same would most likely get me beat to a pulp and deservedly so.
It seems to me that there should be some apologies and all should agree to disagree.

Good point, I did not mean to be as offensive as I sounded. However, there is a large difference between saying I think he is a dumbass for what he is doing and the f-bombing he freaked out and gave me. This smokeless vs black thing seems to continually come up and I can't figure out why the smokeless guys get so offended. I can't see any facts to back up what they think and when they are questioned they fly off the handle like this guy did. Here are the facts about black and if anyone would like to dispute them, I am open to discussion without getting all pissed off.
#1) At long range (600 yards plus) the best black loads will always beat the best smokeless loads. Proof is in watching the results in gong matches. Rarely does a smokeless load win over loads, if ever. It is impossible to get velocity variation as low with smokeless as you can black.
#2) Black loads are safer than smokeless loads. Proof is the number of wrecks that happen at matches each year with black and how many with smokeless.
#3) Cleanup with black is no big deal. Proof is in it takes 3-5 patches at the end of a match to clean the bore and then wipe it off with a oily rag.

I have yet to see someone give the black an honest try and then go back to the smokeless. I still think most that are so opinionated on why the black is so bad have not really tried it in their cartridge rifle. I am not talking about a deer hunting load, I am talking about shooting silhouette, target rifle, and gong matches. I think part of the disconnect is also the difference in each of our value systems. What impresses me is guys that spend a lot of time and effort to find guns and loads that work and then have the guts to go to matches and see how they work. I know how much work it is and how hard it is to win large silhouette matches and the more I shoot, the more I respect these winners, as well as all the guys that have the guts and determination to make it out to the matches. This apparently means nothing to this guy, just like his smokeless loads mean nothing to me. There is plenty of room for everyone, and anytime folks are shooting for fun, I think it is a good thing. I am, however, unlikely to sit here quietly and allow people to spread untruths about using black powder in the cartridge rifle, nor will I be impressed by someone throwing together a smokeless load, not state their name or where they are from, and try to brag about how great it is.
Any thoughts?
Cody Smith
Smithmoor Range, Carpenter Wyoming