loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

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Lumpy Grits
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Location: Springfield, Missouri-U.S.A. Earth

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Lumpy Grits »

lrb--Well, I'm in California, and your pants belt must be way to tight as it's let'n a bunch of gas out of your mouth :!: :evil: :roll:

That said-The use of wads in BPCR loading is common and well documented for well over 100+ yrs.
Sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear. :roll:
No one here except YOU, insulted someones home....... :shock:
Gary
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
77 sharps
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Location: N. CA

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by 77 sharps »

lrb
I saw your post this morning but I had an appointment in town, so I had four hours driving time to mull over what you said. What I thought about was the 6 really nice antique rifles that I have been around when they were destroyed by smokeless loads. I know quite a few gun collectors. Almost every one wants to shoot their rifles with smokeless powder. I don't get it, but that's what they use. Sometimes I get to use these rifles myself, working up BP loads for them and that is cool by me. But I have never seen an antique rifle damaged by BP. I am certain that none of these guys were thinking, will old Betsy hold up for one more shot? They were certain that their loads were safe in those rifles and had fired them many times before they failed. I have been around more rifles that have been badly damaged by smokeless, rung chambers, bent bolts, and other sprung parts.

I have never heard of a Sharps build by either of the Big Timber companies failing. Both builders use modern alloys and heat treatment. The barrels and receivers are far stronger than the originals, but there are limits imposed by the design. Personally I discourage shooters from using smokeless powder in a BP rifle, they are just too inventive in creating dangerous conditions.

The remark I made about 06 rifles was for Brent. It was a lame attempt at gallows humor and was not ment to offend anyone. The point being, you can do every thing right, and still have a less than positive result when shooting antique firearms.
BFD
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Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by BFD »

Indeed, I don't move a few benches away from an 03. I run like hell ''til I drop! :)
But someone has to do shoot'em to keep the gunwriters in business... ;)

I don't worry so much about Shilohs and smokeless. I have spent many many years around guys shooting original Ballards with smokeless in the Schuetzen game.

Right now, I contemplate a certain .45-70 Marlin 95.
Steve Sudbeck
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:18 am

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Steve Sudbeck »

36.5 grains IMR 3031, 405 grain FN lead - runs about 1,300 (or so) fps. I don't shoot much past 100 yards (bench or deer) so the virtues of BP vs. smokeless are academic to me. This is a modest pressure load that is very accurate for my old eyes (goes thru a large deer at 100 yards like it is not even there) - a good load for my needs. Good shooting.
Steve Sudbeck
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:18 am

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Steve Sudbeck »

36.5 grains IMR 3031, 405 grain FN lead - runs about 1,300 (or so) fps. I don't shoot much past 100 yards (bench or deer) so the virtues of BP vs. smokeless are academic to me. This is a modest pressure load that is very accurate for my old eyes (goes thru a large deer at 100 yards like it is not even there) - a good load for my needs. Good shooting.
SFogler
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 9:19 am

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by SFogler »

Just got back from the range shooting my original Remington Rolling Block Creedmoor for the first time. NOTHING takes the place of loading a BP paper patch bullet and shooting an original the way it was meant to shot. I'll save the smokeless for my Browning A bolt 30-06.
Tomklinger
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Tomklinger »

SFolger,
Congratulations on getting shots fired in your original Creedmoor.....there is just somthing special in the"feel" of an original target rifle that is missing in any repro no matter how high the quality. Not putting any manufacturer to task, I know about the superior metal and quality controll but they just feel different.
What cal. and ctg. Is your Creedmoor?
Tom Klinger
SFogler
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 9:19 am

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by SFogler »

My Creedmoor is a "44 S" which turns out to be somewhat larger than a 44-77 all the way around. A chamber cast confirmed it was a 2 1/4" case but with larger dimensions than what will fit into a Sharps 44-77. The fire formed cases do not fit into my Shiloh 44-77 anymore but I am sure I can resize them if I want to. The good news is I do not have to manipulate the new 44-77 brass I already have to get it to shoot in the Creedmoor. The barrel is about .451 and a non-pp .446 bullet just drops right on through the barrel. After reading up on the topic and getting many blog responses, this is what to expect in an original. The chamber allows a 485 gr pp bullet sit all the way out on the 2 1/4" case which means I could get 90 grains of BP in it if I want to; I have only put 70 grains in the case with .060 wads and a grease cookie to take up the remaining space. So I load the bullet with about 1/8" or less of seating and it fits into the chamber just fine. I am getting some better bullets for paper patching; 500, 535, and 550 gr with a .446 diameter and I will see what I can learn from those. So I am learning to shoot this rifle the way they were made to be shot for the World Class Creedmoor competitions and it is very satisfying. I wanted an original Sharps to go with my Shilohs, but I will never be able afford one, so I found an original Rolling Block instead. They made up 50% of the first Creedmoor rifles in the match in 1874; Sharps being the other 50%. I don't mean to talk about a RB in the Shiloh forum, but the point was that shooting BPCRs they way they were meant to be shot is an interesting journey and very satisfying. I consider it a privilege and blessing to learn the rifle's old ways instead of making the rifle learn modern ways.
Tomklinger
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Tomklinger »

SFogler,
I am working with my original Hepburn Creedmoor, it's a 44 2-6/100. I have been breech seating the rifle the past few months with bore dia. Paper patch bullets. I agree it's great to shoot the originals the way they were intended. They are every bit as accurate as the modern ones and sometimes more so in my opinion.
Many people think the "S" on the Remington Creedmoor's stands for 44 Sharps. But that is incorrect. The 44S is the Remington "Special" long range cartridge designed for the Creedmoor rifles. I believe the round could be loaded up to 100gr. with a long drop tube and a little compression.
The large bores were pretty normal on those rifles. The bore on my Hepburn is .448 and a .454 groove.
The earliest production Remington Creedmoor rifles like the ones that went to the American team had full octagon barrels, if you have one of those, you are a lucky man. Very few of those were produced.....
Keep us posted on your progress.
Tom Klinger
Dakota111
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:47 am

Re: loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

Post by Dakota111 »

I have 3 Shiloh Sharps in 45/70 I use 2400 with either a 520gr or a 535gr bullet

I also have a 40/65 Shiloh Sharps which I use 4759 with a 400gr bullet.

Extremely accurate with smokeless.

regards
Dakota111
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