loads for shiloh sharps in .45/70

[SFogler]

Little Bill,
Go to this link at Historic Shooting.com and look at the picture in the first post... you may want to rethink smokeless in a BPCR, at least I hope you do.
BP shooting is an opportunity to do something truly unique and get away from the smokeless herd.

http://historicshooting.com/mybb/showth ... p?tid=1740

Historic Shooting Forums / General / Reloading v / Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless

I couldn't get picture to load here.

[Clarence]

The first rule for keeping a rifle in one piece is to use proper loads.

One of the advantages of black powder is that you can't get enough powder into the cartridge to hurt the rifle, if you use the proper granulations (1Fg-3Fg). If you try to compress too much, the case bulges to tell you to stop.

In the case of smokeless, there is no built-in indicator to protect someone. If a person is to load smokeless safely, he must totally understand what he is doing and use extra precautions at every step to make sure he doesn't find himself is dangerous territory.

Periodically idiots do what idiots do: destroy their rifles and sometimes cause themselves harm.

This shooter obviously does not understand fairly quick-burning smokeless powder. He loaded twice the normal load of 5744. Testing done some years ago with Scheutzen rifles indicated that a double-charge of fairly quick powders, like 4227 (similar burn rate to 5744), roughly quadruples the pressure. If the pressure for a normal load of 5744 (around 25 gr.) generated a pressure in the 20-25 KPSI range, the expected pressure from this load would be probably at least 75KPSI. The wad on top the powder could very likely have contributed to the problem as well. I wouldn't want to be around any rifle with a 19th century design with that kind of pressure. As a matter of fact, I would't want to be anywhere near a modern Marline loaded this heavily.

This idiot was extremely lucky he didn't wake up in the morgue.

5744 can be loaded safely in these rifles, with charges around 25 grains. I've done it, and hunted twice in Africa with 5744 loads. But you can bet that every powder charge was weighed, visually checked, and then the loaded cartridge was weighed to make sure there was not a double-charge. And I wouldn't personally do it in a Ballard or anything weaker than a Shiloh.

Clarence

[df]

Clarence makes good points.
If you don't know what you are doing, aren't completely attentive, or decide "a little more wont hurt" you will have problems.
I do "throw all my charges for my Shilohs and as said above, I use Rl7 and In I follow published loads.
Those loads do not completely fill the case, but a double charge will not come close to fitting in the case.
I have been reloading since the late 1960s and think I have a decent understanding of it. However, you have to pay attention to what you are doing.
Good luck with black or smokeless powder, which ever you choose.

[df]

Clarence makes good points.
If you don't know what you are doing, aren't completely attentive, or decide "a little more wont hurt" you will have problems.
I do "throw all my charges for my Shilohs and as said above, I use Rl7 and In I follow published loads.
Those loads do not completely fill the case, but a double charge will not come close to fitting in the case.
I have been reloading since the late 1960s and think I have a decent understanding of it. However, you have to pay attention to what you are doing.
Good luck with black or smokeless powder, which ever you choose.

[Straightneck]

borderdogs

Try finding AA5744 in the store or on line for that matter I have looked and there is nothing around.
Rob

Powder Valley@ http://powdervalleyinc.com/ ACC5744-01 * ACCURATE 5744 - 1 LB. $30.25
ACC5744-08 * ACCURATE 5744 - 8 LB. $227.00,, in stock

Powder valley has some of the best prices I've found, on powder, primers and bullets,, also reasonable shipping plus HazMat

Mason

[lrb]

I have a #3 sporter with the heavy barrel, 45-70. It was delivered in the early nineties. I shoot only smokeless in it with very fine results, as far as I'm concerned. 47 gr. of IMR 3031, CCI mag rifle primer, Remington 405 JSP bullet with a tight crimp. Back when I could see, I could hit empty powder cans at 230 yrds consistently. and shoot 5 shot groups of 3/4" to 1" spread at 100yrds. That is probably not up to competition quality accuracy, but I am well pleased with it considering that accuracy level was attained with the old Shiloh sporting grade tang site, and the standard silver blade front.

[SFogler]

What’s the point of “experimenting” with smokeless in a Sharps? So you get a $3000+ Shiloh to shoot smokeless at 1 MOA – big deal. Any number of rifles do that and for far less investment. The challenge is getting them to do that with BP.

If you want to push big slow bullets with smokeless have you tried big bore handguns? I have a S&W 500 that is a hoot to shoot with 500 grain bullets. I have a friend who takes antelope with a S&W 460 because it is flat shooting to 200 yds. They are a lot easier to haul around the woods than a 12 lb Sharps. Cheaper too.

[lrb]

The point is quite simple. I/we, do it because we can, and want to.

[battleship gunner]

If someone goes to Africa and uses a Sharps WHY not use black powder instead of 5744. I'm with Irb on smokeless and have always used smokeless in both my Sharps, my 2.6/10th is going on 28 years plus 1,000s of rounds of 500-540 grs. through it. I have used 5 different powder types and some were more accurate than others but never any problems. The folks at Accurate Arms gave me some load info for the 5744 and they were not 25 grs. they were about 40 grs. I have never double charged a case because I weigh every charge and have ONLY 1 case next to the scale at a time, once I charge the case I throw another charge on the scale and while that's stabilizing I seat the bullet then get another case then trickle the remaining kernels to the proper weight. So I can't double charge unless I try real hard. No need the re-weigh the cartridges unless you don't pay attention to what you're doing. I use 5744 in my .50-140 ( 3.25" ) with a 640 gr. bullet and it is more accurate than I am, when you're almost 70 the eyes don't see as well as they used to but I can still group them at about 1 1/2" with 10 shots @ 100 yds. plus no cleaning between shots. Just my opinion and yes we do it because we can and want to.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[battleship gunner]

If someone goes to Africa and uses a Sharps WHY not use black powder instead of 5744. I'm with Irb on smokeless and have always used smokeless in both my Sharps, my 2.6/10th is going on 28 years plus 1,000s of rounds of 500-540 grs. through it. I have used 5 different powder types and some were more accurate than others but never any problems. The folks at Accurate Arms gave me some load info for the 5744 and they were not 25 grs. they were about 40 grs. I have never double charged a case because I weigh every charge and have ONLY 1 case next to the scale at a time, once I charge the case I throw another charge on the scale and while that's stabilizing I seat the bullet then get another case then trickle the remaining kernels to the proper weight. So I can't double charge unless I try real hard. No need the re-weigh the cartridges unless you don't pay attention to what you're doing. I use 5744 in my .50-140 ( 3.25" ) with a 640 gr. bullet and it is more accurate than I am, when you're almost 70 the eyes don't see as well as they used to but I can still group them at about 1 1/2" with 10 shots @ 100 yds. plus no cleaning between shots. Just my opinion and yes we do it because we can and want to.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[borderdogs]

Mason,
Thanks for the info on A5744 and it's good that its available again. I got 4lbs from Midway and because of their birthday discount I got it for a little over $28/lbs.

Thanks,
Rob

[Dakota111]

hello


I use smokeless in all of my Shiloh's . I have 4 of them.

In the 45/70 with a 525 gr bullet and 535gr bullet I use 2400.

In the 40/65 with a 400 gr bullet I used 5745.

At 200yds with the 40/65 I have fired a 100 with 8 X 's it's a saddle rifle w/MVA 6x scope
At 200yds with the 45/70 I have fired a 100 with 8 X's Long range express. w/MVA 6x scope
At 300 yds with the 45/70 I have fired a 93/100 3X's Sporter with irons.
I just started to learn how to fire at that range with an excellent tutor Art Ruggerio.

So using smokeless in Shilohs works well for me.

regards

[SFogler]

[but would like to experiment with pp bullets and smokeless.*]
Why????

Smokeless in a Sharps - what a sacrilege.

[lrb]

I get sub MOA out of my Shiloh #3 with 47 gr 3031, and a 405 Remington soft nose bullet. So far it has taken about 50 deer, maybe more. My bud shoots a Pedersoli Sharps using 52 gr 3031, and also gets excellent accuracy. The sharps action is very strong and more than adequate for smokeless pressures. The blown Sharps mentioned in this thread was certainly not blown because of smokeless powder, but rather the wrong smokeless powder.

[SFogler]

http://historicshooting.com/mybb/showth ... 8#pid16418

Ask this fella about smokeless loads in his 45-70....

Amen brother!!!!
Did Sharps load with pp and smokelesss?????