50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Ask Shiloh questions about your Shiloh Sharps Rifle.

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desert deuce
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Re: 50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Post by desert deuce »

The largest variable as Kurt alluded to as did Bryan Y. is the person holding the rifle.

There is a balance point that includes shooter, rifle and load that produces maximum desirable results on the target.

The largest variable, in my opinion, is the shooter. I have shot with a man in Montana at long range who uses a 50-90 and does quite well. However, it took him a relatively long time to achieve the results on target that he was satisfied with.

My Elk Hunting buddy dropped off a Ruger #1 yesterday, barrel is stamped 50-90 Sharps, and 60 rounds of once fired starline brass. I slugged the bore and checked the twist but all I really needed to do was put it on the scales to know that it is not a target rifle at 10 pounds 14 ounces.

At least not with me shooting it. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Having tinkered with a Shiloh LRE in 50-90 it didn't take long to figure out that it was more gun than I could handle well over a five day match like the Creedmoor Cup. Yeah, I could make it go BOOOOOMMMM, and it would hold quite well at 1,000 yards but it was too light. Maybe an iron sighted 25 pound rifle with someone that wants to spend the time and money to bring it up to speed could do quite well. Let's just say I figured out pretty quick it was not for me.

I think a heavy 45-110 with the right nimrod holding it could probably do really well and we may just see that next month at Raton. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: Remember, it's not the rifle, it is the ability of the shooter with the rifle that makes the difference. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
df
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Re: 50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Post by df »

I have a 50-70 #1 and like it a lot. When I ordered it we talked about twist. I told them I would shoot 425/450 grain bullets. I believe I was talking to Lucinda and she said go with the 1:36 twist. I did and it works great, with the 425/450 grain bullets.
I also have a #1 45/70 but don't shoot it as much as the 50/70.
martinibelgian
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Re: 50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Post by martinibelgian »

In order for a bullet not to arrive point-on requires a massive overstabilization - I doubt you would have that issue with even the faster twist and the lighter bullet. Besides, it actually is a non-issue, as you would only use the lighter bullet at shorter ranges, not at the longer ranges. Also, 1000 yds isn't 3000 yds, even BP trajectories at 1000 aren't all that steep.
BTW, read that Sandy hook test well, and read between the lines - the twist/case of the rifle that used the 500gr bullet wasn't specified, I presume this could be the longer 'match' version with the faster (18") twist and the longer case:
The rifles tested included a special "long range" Springfield chambered for a 2.4-inch shell instead of the standard 2.1-inch case. The 2.4-inch case held 80 grains of black powder behind the new prototype 500-grain lead bullet.
- it merely specified that the standard Trapdoor/405gr bullet combination wasn't all that good at the longer ranges.
As to the 577-450, don't forget it shot a lighter bullet (480gr) which would retain less energy at longer ranges - for long range work, the heavier bullet, assuming adequate stability, will always beat the lighter bullet. FWIW, the specced MV of 1350fps for the 577-450 was in practice a bit less...
C.L. Hiatt II
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Re: 50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Post by C.L. Hiatt II »

CharlieBison wrote:Thanks for all of your input! Well, with many saying go for the 1in36 or the 1in22 will be fine, I just called Shiloh and see what the horses mouth had to say. According to them, the 1in22 will work fine with lighter bullets, so that's the route I will probably go. Now, if anyone has any strong rebuttal, I would like to hear it because I can still change my order. Thanks again!
Just got back on here so if someone else comments same as me, accept my apology. As far as the 22 twist goes, my #1 Sporter, 34" barrel did not particularly like any bullets shorter than 1.2 inches. The load I settled on ( hunting load) is 1.23" Paper Patch and weighs 530 gr. +/-. 50-70 Rolling Block built for me by Lone Star has a 24 twist (30 in. barrel). I use same bullet so I don't get confused, tho it did shoot shorter/lighter bullets slightly better than the 22 twist Sharps.
I'm sure there are some around that can provide more concrete info.
Best thing is ----- do it your way & have fun.
CL
"It is better to die a free man, weapon in hand, than to live life as a coward and a slave"
CharlieBison
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Re: 50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

Post by CharlieBison »

Because I started this thread, I might as well provide my report. I recently received my #3 Sharps chambered in 50-70, with a 1 in 22" twist, and shot it for the first time today. Taking Kirk's advice was spot on, as the 1 in 22" twist shot 450gr bullets perfectly fine.
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