50-70 Twist (overstabilization, etc.)

[CharlieBison]

I have been shooting Shiloh 45-70s for awhile and am about to dabble into the world of 50-70--and I have questions. So I know there is a 50 caliber twist thread going, but it does not answer the question I have. Currently, I have a 50-70 set for production this summer and I cannot decide on twist rate.

Currently, I have the order set for a 1in22 twist (default) because I did not want to limit myself if I decided to shoot bigger bullets someday, even though I plan on mostly shooting 425s, 450s. That said, will the 1in22 have a negative effect on the lighter bullets? I have read that with these size bullets that over-stabilization is somewhat of a myth, but I need some help from the experts (and I cannot get the search function to work worth a darn, as it keeps on telling me my words are "too common." Should I just forget the heavier bullets since I plan on shooting mostly light and stick with the 1in36? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Dennis Armistead]

I'd go with the 1-36 ROT, much more fun to shoot in a standard weight rifle. My 50 2 1/2 has a fast twist but weighs 23 lbs and is dedicated to stick shooting. If I wanted a fun handling rifle such as the 50-70 I would prefer the lighter rounds, thus slower ROT.
Dennis

[CharlieBison]

Twist rate effects the recoil? If so, I did not know that.To my other question, could the 1in22 over-stabilize the lighter bullet? Thanks for your input!

I'd go with the 1-36 ROT, much more fun to shoot in a standard weight rifle. My 50 2 1/2 has a fast twist but weighs 23 lbs and is dedicated to stick shooting. If I wanted a fun handling rifle such as the 50-70 I would prefer the lighter rounds, thus slower ROT.
Dennis

[Dennis Armistead]

Not so much recoil due to powder capacity, even though a longer bullet means more compression or less powder, but a heavier round creates more torque and push. I think a fast ROT will not over stabilize a lighter round in the 50-70.
Dennis

[J.B.]

Loaded with black, there is little to be gained by going to bullets much heavier than the standard 450 grn loading in the 50/70 Govt case. No 'expert' here but I've had a 50/70 Shiloh with the 36" twist and it was a very efficient package. I know in previous discussions on the forum that one or two others at least have a 50/70 with the 1/22" twist and have only good things to say about them. From memory most are shooting bullets at or below 500 grns in weight. Mine would shoot moa quite happily past 200 yards and was a gong shoot contender out past 800 yds. Too heavy a bullet in the 50/70 becomes a case of diminishing returns. For target and range work I had Tom at Accurate Moulds build me a bore riding 468 grain mould and it certainly delivered the goods at the longer ranges as it allowed a little more powder capacity. So..to sum up... I'd be saying don't go about about 450-500 grns in bullet weight in the 50/70 and either twist will work fine. The slower twist being closer to traditional and would offer less torque on firing and probably less fouling. The 1/22" will allow the option to experiment with bullets of different lengths and weight but the 50/70 's case capacity will not. Its a different story with the 50 x 2 1/2" when launching 650 & 700 grain bullets. HTH
J.B.

[boge]

First, no one buys a .50 Gov't as a long range rifle as it's simply not what it was designed for. The 450 gr. Gov't bullet will kill anything in North America if you hit it right. It's a 200 yd. max. ctg. for game if the shooter does his part. Sure, there are a few that can stretch that distance under perfect conditions when hunting, but I am talking field conditions after humping hill & dale and not under pristine range conditions and using target sights. Few are the men who can regularly hit a standing deer offhand with regularity using a BPCR at 200 yds. with hunting sights under a variety of weather conditions.

That said, the 1 in 36" is a far better choice for the .50 Gov't.

[CharlieBison]

Thanks for all of your input! Well, with many saying go for the 1in36 or the 1in22 will be fine, I just called Shiloh and see what the horses mouth had to say. According to them, the 1in22 will work fine with lighter bullets, so that's the route I will probably go. Now, if anyone has any strong rebuttal, I would like to hear it because I can still change my order. Thanks again!

[Dennis Armistead]

The one thing I learned when I started shooting BPCR back in 1990, is enjoy what's on your dime because there is a lot of opinions out there but you need to be happy with what you have. That being said...enjoy the fast 50 and create smoke where ever you go.
Dennis

[boge]

Thanks for all of your input! Well, with many saying go for the 1in36 or the 1in22 will be fine, I just called Shiloh and see what the horses mouth had to say. According to them, the 1in22 will work fine with lighter bullets, so that's the route I will probably go. Now, if anyone has any strong rebuttal, I would like to hear it because I can still change my order. Thanks again!

One question: have you ever shot a .50 cal. Sharps with a heavy bullet (550 gr.+) before? If not, do so before buying.

[bobw]

Thanks for all of your input! Well, with many saying go for the 1in36 or the 1in22 will be fine, I just called Shiloh and see what the horses mouth had to say. According to them, the 1in22 will work fine with lighter bullets, so that's the route I will probably go. Now, if anyone has any strong rebuttal, I would like to hear it because I can still change my order. Thanks again!

One question: have you ever shot a .50 cal. Sharps with a heavy bullet (550 gr.+) before? If not, do so before buying.

Damn it all Boge, the man has to take his own sob lessons. His mind was already made up before he asked the question, he just wants to say down the line somewhere that his choices weren't his fault.

[rdnck]

bobw--That is the truth if I ever heard it. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[cw50-70]

Just to put things in perspective, a Remington 870 weighing 7.5 pounds can shoot HV loads of 1 1/4 ounce shot (546 grains) at 1330 fps. Hunters can shoot the heck out of these at wildfowl. Are you guys saying BP shooters are wimps or what?

[BFD]

Lots and lots of people shoot 550 gr bullets out of .45s. Is there really any difference? I doubt you could tell in a blind experiment.

[Dennis Armistead]

Lots and lots of people shoot 550 gr bullets out of .45s. Is there really any difference? I doubt you could tell in a blind experiment.

I have both...there is a difference.
Dennis

[BFD]

So, whats the physics of that? Is the .50-70 so much faster? I'm curious.