question about Sharps weights

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Oldmac
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question about Sharps weights

Post by Oldmac »

...Long time lurker here, but I do have a question.

Now then, I am on the edge of ordering a Shiloh, but the question in my mind is caliber. Considering a .44-77, .45-90, .50-70 or .50.90...(frankly the .50-90 has the edge...I want a real "Big Fifty' buffalo rifle...) but the weights..I know a .50-90 in particular has to have some weight to it ...a reread of Mike V's book indicates a 12 lb rifle is manageable...even in the big caliber...so...to get a 12 lb rifle, what barrel do I order? 30 std oct. (Oh forgot to mention this..I want a octagonal barrel) 30 inch heavy ? 34 std. 34 hvy? Could someone help a bit?
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bryany
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by bryany »

32 inch heavy full octagon might make 12 pounds but if it was me, I'd think about a 14 lb 30 or 32 inch barrel. More weight helps with recoil and either way, it won't be a rifle you shoot all off hand or pack on your shoulder for a week of elk hunting just for fun. It would be great off sitting or prone sticks though.

Just my opinion.

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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by 38-72 »

It would help, if you could tell us, what kind of shooting you plan to do with the rifle.
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Oldmac »

Post by 38-72 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:25 am
"It would help, if you could tell us, what kind of shooting you plan to do with the rifle.'


Yeah, I guess it would. My health, at this point, had deterioted to the point that any kind of hunting is more or less out of the question. I simply cannot walk any distance at all or stay in a standing postion for more than few minutes. I've always had a big major interest in history, used to teach history at high school level for a while..The 'Great Buffalo Hunts' fascinate me. But the shooting itself will be more or less simply plinking..maybe some (very) low end target shoots with it...(My eyes have never been very good...worn glasses for over 60 years..bifocals the past 25+) So no long hikes with rifle, just 'playing' with it, more or less. Oh and not sure if this matters but been reloading for years and also have long history with flintlock rifles...

But, even considering Mike Venturino's eloquent words of 'first buy a .45-70, I don't want a .45-70...I had two...a Navy Arms Rolling Block which I traded off to get a H&R Trapdoor Springfield. I know the .45-70 was probably the most popular buffalo rifle, but I want something else...a .50 by choice...but a .44-77 would also be good choice...(it was a popular caliber during the hide hunting days) or .45-90 There is no good reason for this, just in my mind...with the .45-90 you have all the advantages of a .45-70,(you can load cartiridge with .45-70 power loads plus a bit of additional power/range as desired. Plus with a .45 cal barrel, Shiloh can fix you up with a .22 liner...) But I want a .50...and this will most likely be my only Shiloh and...well...I want what I want...
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Don McDowell
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Don McDowell »

Given your stated health problems I'ld suggest by passing the 50 2.5, and if a 50 is really what you want then go with the 50-70 (the second most popular cartridge behind the #1 44-77) Heavy octagon barrel no more than 30 inches long. If you absolutely think you want the least chambered of the "buffalo guns" then go with the 50-90 with a 16 lb barrel.
A 44-77 with a standard weight barrel shooting the 1.1 inch long bullets of the hide hunting days offers mild recoil.
You might also want to consider a 40-70 ss in a standard weight barrel.
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Re: question about Sharps weights

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PM sent
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Lumpy Grits
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Have you fired a full load in a .50-90? It will pound you hard.
Go with a #1, with 30" hvy oct BBL in .45-90.
What is your background in loading black powder?
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Dan O »

Oldmac obviously you have a particular rifle in mind that will make you happy. Since your the one writing the check get what your dreaming of and enjoy the heck out of it. Call Shiloh and get the answers your seeking from the folks that build the dream guns we all cherish. Then give them the deposit and go for it. If you change your mind you will have time to change the order. There problem solved!!
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Oldmac »

Lumpy Grits wrote:Have you fired a full load in a .50-90? It will pound you hard.
Go with a #1, with 30" hvy oct BBL in .45-90.
What is your background in loading black powder?
Gary

Well as I stated in an earlier post in this thread, have owned and shot two different .45-70s and the second one, the H&R Springfield, I shot with black powder a fair bit...I've also shot flintlock and caplock muzzleloaders for over 40 years...

As for the recoil...I'm aware of that, but using the only 'current' info I have, Mike Venturino's book, I was thinking a 12 lb rifle might 'tame' the recoil a bit (he sorta/kinda indicates a 12 pounder did, but then [again according to the book] he didn't actually do the firing)....but I hasten to confess it is strictly theory, so will freely admit I may well be stuffed full of the wrong info. I am perfectly willing to go to a .50-70...

And Don, your comments make a lot of sense...I have no problems going to a .50-70, especially as the term "Big 50" seems to be as much a generic reference to any 50 cal on the buffalo range, as a reference to a specifc caliber. I like the idea of a .44-77 as well...'gen-u-wine buffler' caliber for one thing, but I've heard some horror stories of Sharps and bottleneck cases... (and oh yeah Don...we both have the last name.."mac' is a nickname I've had most of my life and I suppose, being only a couple of months from 67, I guess the 'old' is not that much of a stretch.... :D
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Kurt »

Oldmac.

I have a 34" heavy barrel .50-2.5 that weighs 13# 4 oz with a 1/22 twist and it is not for someone with health problems or is recoil timid.
But saying this, the big .50-2.5 can be tamed down considerably by ordering it with a slow twist like 1/32 or 1/36 so lighter bullets can be used. This makes it a pleasant rifle to shoot with out going to a bull barrel. I would not order this caliber in the light standard weight barrel, I would go with a heavy 30" or 32" if your not planning on hunting anymore like you mentioned.
Here is another option. The fast twist 1/22 for shooting the heavy 700 gr +- with a 100 gr plus load can be tamed down to a mild recoil by adding mercury recoil reducing tubes. I would have Kirk put two in the stock, this will make the recoil tolerable for recoil sensitive shooters.
Kirk let me shoot his light weight .45-2-7/8 hunting rifle with a very light barrel and this rifle had three tubes in the butt stock if I remember right. I don't know that the longevity of the wood would be with three of these tubes in it would be, but if it's a big 50 your yearning for this would be an option.
The .44-77 is also a good choice. I have one with a light 10 pounder with a 30" barrel with a crescent butt plate that is a fine shooter with mild recoil. It has downed two Bison's for me if you ever decide to go after one.
Kurt
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Lumpy Grits
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Mac-Where are you located?
Neither of the 50's have mild recoil. Go shoot one before you put your $$$ into one.
Sounds to me, you will be shooting paper and steel for the most part(like me). The .44-77 &.45-90 will do well for you.
Do you cast your own bullets? Most of us here do.. :wink:
Here's a good outfit to buy from.
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/

Agree 110% about the mercury recoil reducer. Have one in my .45-90.

G.
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Oldmac
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Oldmac »

Lumpy Grits wrote:Mac-Where are you located?
Neither of the 50's have mild recoil. Go shoot one before you put your $$$ into one.
Sounds to me, you will be shooting paper and steel for the most part(like me). The .44-77 &.45-90 will do well for you.
Do you cast your own bullets? Most of us here do.. :wink:
Here's a good outfit to buy from.
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/

G.

I live in North Carolina... a bit further east than most of those here.. Insofar as casting my own..I do my own rb for the muzzleloaders, and still have a .45 bullet mould form my .45-70 days.
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Dang-About as far from me, as one can be. :?
If you were closer, I wanted to invite you to try out my .45-90.
G.
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Oldmac »

Lumpy Grits wrote:Dang-About as far from me, as one can be. :?
If you were closer, I wanted to invite you to try out my .45-90.
G.

Appreicate it, but yeah..that'd be one lllooonnnggg drive!
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Don McDowell
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Re: question about Sharps weights

Post by Don McDowell »

Oldmac, the urban myth about the 44-77's is pretty much just that.
I have 2 shiloh's in 44-77, both with 30 inch heavy barrels, and both were a bunch easier to get to shooting well than the average internet advice suggested. If I were to do another 44-77 I would have it put up on a 30 or 32 inch standard weight barrel.If you do decide to go with the 44 2 1/4 then be sure to have them use the reamer with the 7 degree lead, then you can go either patched and naked bullets.
I have spent plenty of time with the 50-90 in two different rifles, and while a 12 pound gun is manageable its not pleasant for an extended shooting session. This is where we take a hint from the ODG's and their 16 lb "big 50's".
I like the 45-90, but the recoil from those will wear on you by the end of the day,( one weighs one 10 1/2 lb,12 lb 3 and the other 14 lbs.) and am not truly convinced they would be any better for hunting than the 45-70, but it is a great creedmoor cartridge.
Lot's of choices to have your rifle in, but like Dan 0 said follow your gut. These things are like Lay's potato chips, you can't have just one, and you can get it right on the second one :D ....
On the age thing, there are few of us sharps nuts that aren't old enough to get our AARP cards and fewer yet that aren't drawing our old age pension. :wink:
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