Twist rates are minimal info to so business with Shiloh

[SharpsShooter2B]

Shiloh web site should give twist rates for all cals.
22" is great for .50 but long range = high recoil.
18" for .45 equals performance with less recoil.
14" for .40 equals performance with recoil any wimp can handle.
That is 988 grns for .50, 800 grns for .45 and 632 grns for .40 (all about 1.9" long

[SharpsShooter2B]

By the way in case you don't understand the bad effects of transonic velocity on wind drift, all long range high BC bullets are 1120 fps or below.

[SharpsShooter2B]

The point is I can't get twist info from Shiloh!

[gunlaker]

By the way in case you don't understand the bad effects of transonic velocity on wind drift, all long range high BC bullets are 1120 fps or below.

You can ask on the support forums or get information by phoning them. Most people here will be able to give you the default twist rates that Shiloh provides. There are often more than one rate available.

With respect to 1120 fps or below, you won't find too many long range shooters going that slow. For silhouette maybe...

Chris.

[gunlaker]

BTW, the default .45 cal twist they use is 1:18 but 1:16 is available on request.

Their default .40 cal twist is 1:16 but you can get 1:14.5 on request.

I hope that is useful to you.

Chris.

[bruce m]

i have a cupboard full of 40 and 45 cal moulds that say other than the above.
40 cal 1:13 twist max length bullet for 1000 yds is 1.5".
45 cal 1:18 twist max bullet length for 1000 yds is 1.460"
out to 200 yds, the above 40 twist can use 1.550", and thee above 45 cal twist can handle 1.50" long bullet.
13 twist is faster than 14 twist, and as such can handle longer bullets.
the bullets used have either money or elliptical noses which put the cantre of pressure back nearer the centre of mass than other nose profiles in the velocity ranges encountered in black powder cartridges, i.e. transonic and subsonic.
all at muzzle velocities of around 1300 fps.
starting bullets at the speeds mentioned ( below 1120 fps) is a recipe for bad vert.
the o.d.g. were chasing more like 1400 fps.
never had a 50 cal, so cannot comment.
keep safe,
bruce.

[SharpsShooter2B]

With respect to 1120 fps or below, you won't find too many long range shooters going that slow. For silhouette maybe...

Chris.[/quote]
Thank you,
Any bullet launched above 1120 fps will have at least 1 moa movement at a 1000 yrd target for EVERY 1 mile change in crosswind. Most people shooting around 1300 fps will suffer closer to 1.5 moa change in impact for every 1 mile per hour change in crosswind even if shooting a nice Brooks spitser with a bc op .515. Of course if crosswinds are steady you can shoot any bullet.
I am working on less than .75 moa deviation per each mph crosswind variation. I.E. sectional density about .56 or greater and bc above .68.
Thank you again

[SharpsShooter2B]

BTW, the default .45 cal twist they use is 1:18 but 1:16 is available on request.

Their default .40 cal twist is 1:16 but you can get 1:14.5 on request.
bl
I hope that is useful to you.

Chris.

Thank You Very Much.
C. Sharps Arms (pardon the expression!) has 1:18 twist for .45 (good) but has only 1:24 for .50 and 1:16 for .40 (not good).
I could live with the 1:14.5 in .40 with such little recoil but I am tempted to try the 1885 highwall in .45 cal.
My hunting rifle from Shiloh from the '70's is great! .50 3 1/4 with 1:36 twist with light 500 or less paper patched bullets. Been shooting it for about 40 year but after 40 or 50 shots in 9.5 lb business rifle the recoil becomes noticeable
Thanks again!

[bruce m]

sharpshooter,
be happy with i moa per mph of wind deflection at 800 yds, and look for good grouping and minimal vert at all ranges.
you can learn wind deflection compensation and do something about it, but bad vert or grouping is beyond control in a string.
back in the day, many bullet shapes were developed by trial and error.
the 2 best were the metford bullet, established to work well by firing many 1,000s of bullets in britain, and the generic american long range bullet
with its sleek elliptical mose.
those guys were not stupid, and would have tried anuthing there was to be tried.
one way to increase b.c. is to lengthen the ogive, but longer than about 1.5 calibres is impossible with cast bullets, and can only be done with jacketed or turned brass alloy bullets.
cast ones bend and slump, and the mass in them causes them the set back, losing their length.
airflow at transonic velocities has proven that other nose shapes are superior to spitzers, at our velocity levels, as discovered by many men who died in the quest for supersonic flight.
one easy way to lift b.c is use a pp bullet, as it does not have drag inducing "speed humps".
your weights and bullet lengths are way off what has been proven in the day, and rediscovered in modern times.
if it works, please let us know the what and how of it all.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Kirk]

Sharpshooter28
People call all the time to get twist info., not sure what happened in your case?

50 cal ---- 1x22 left hand or 1x36
44 cal ---- 1x19
45 cal ---- 1x18 or 1x16
40 cal ---- 1x16 or 1x14
38 cal ---- Douglas 1x16 or you specify
30 cal ---- Douglas 1x12 or you specify

Kirk,

[gunlaker]

Sorry Kirk about misquoting the faster 1:14 twist on the .40 cal. You'd think I'd know it's 1:14 rather than 1:14.5 as my new Long Range Express is coming in the mail today.

To the original poster... I wouldn't worry a bit about a .40-65 with 1:16 twist. I have been shooting a Shiloh Sharps #3 in .40-65 with a 1:16 twist for a few years now. It is easily the most accurate mid-range & silhouette rifle I own. I'm always experimenting so ordered the faster twist, but you'd have to see how well that 1:16 twist rifle can shoot to believe it.

Chris.

[desert deuce]

The effect of wind drift can be fairly predictable. The results of which can be gratifying

The effects of wind shear are not so much. The results of which can be disappointing, surprising even.

It is where the bullet impacts the target that counts. The scoring of which is what matters even more.

[Steve Rhoades]

After ingesting some of the explanations put forth on this thread I have come to the conclusion that some effort, on my part, should be expended on a more simplified solution to the problem.
Once you hypotenuse the angles involved in the trajectory of a launched projectile that has rotation induced by your selected barrel twist, that data can be injected into your equation formed by the prevailing wind and lighting conditions that exist and a conclusion attained. You then should make a calculated decision to exercise the option of either adding to or subtracting from that conclusion to make a much needed educated adjustment to the vernier sight that you have chosen to be installed on your rifle.
After making those said adjustments to the above mentioned vernier sights there is one last step you should perform before squeezing the trigger and that is to turn to you spotter and udder those famous words, "hold my beer and watch this"

[bruce m]

steve,
what are you trying to say
keep safe,
bruce.

[Jim Kidwell]

After ingesting some of the explanations put forth on this thread I have come to the conclusion that some effort, on my part, should be expended on a more simplified solution to the problem.
Once you hypotenuse the angles involved in the trajectory of a launched projectile that has rotation induced by your selected barrel twist, that data can be injected into your equation formed by the prevailing wind and lighting conditions that exist and a conclusion attained. You then should make a calculated decision to exercise the option of either adding to or subtracting from that conclusion to make a much needed educated adjustment to the vernier sight that you have chosen to be installed on your rifle.
After making those said adjustments to the above mentioned vernier sights there is one last step you should perform before squeezing the trigger and that is to turn to you spotter and udder those famous words, "hold my beer and watch this"

Sometimes your expounded knowledge just astounds me. ............................