Lotsa' Markings!

Ask Shiloh questions about your Shiloh Sharps Rifle.

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Doneal
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 am

Lotsa' Markings!

Post by Doneal » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:31 am

I picked up a Shiloh not long ago that seems to have every marking applied that Shiloh ever put on a gun. I'd like to know its approximate place in the evolution of the Shiloh Sharps. Serial is 6253, cal. 50-140, 30" octagonal barrel, schnable forearm and cheekpiece stock with fancy wood. The buttplate is black with SHARPS and Old Reliable markings. Left receiver has usual (I think) Shiloh Big Timber markings. Top of bbl has Old Reliable and C. Sharps Arms Co Inc, and Calibre 50 3 1/4. Bottom of bbl under wood has 6253, a wolf's head mark, Shiloh Rifle Mfg Co, and 50 140.
Can you tell me about when the rifle was made, and where it fits in the history of Shiloh?

My only other Shiloh is a Jaeger 45-70 ordered back in 1988. Since the Jaeger is light, comfortable, and has brought me some game, I haven't felt the need for another Shiloh-- but couldn't resist the heavy 50.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Doneal

firefighter1990
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by firefighter1990 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:10 am

I have two similar time period Shiloh's. One a 40-50 sbn and the other a 40-90 sbn. Serial numbers are 6340 and 6385. These rifles date in between the farmingdale period and the current "B series" of rifles. Wolfgang Droege moved shop from NY to big timber, hence the address on the left side. This was also a time when Shiloh and C sharps were one in the same as noted by the "old reliable" both on the barrel and the butt plate: both of which are now copyrights owned by the new and current c sharps arms company. I believe that during this time, the Brian family had bought the company from Wolfgang and he was still around while things were in transition and his wolf-head mark on the under side of the barrel is representative of that. There are no detailed records of these older rifles but everything with a "B" serial number since the Brian family had gone full tilt is logged into record just like the originals were. From what little history I know of the company, I'm guessing our rifles are from the early 80's but exact dates are beyond me. These "transition" rifles don't have the high-half-cock and large one-piece-firing-pins of the early farmingdales. The old farmingdales were notorious for long free-bore chambers and these two examples I have aren't too bad in that aspect but still not as tight and exact as the latest production examples. Still mighty fine rifles though! :wink:

Doneal
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by Doneal » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Thanks Firefighter-- good background info! Now, all I have to do is figure out if I really want to shoot a 50-140. At my age, getting the heck kicked outta you isn't a challange any more. It's stupidity.

firefighter1990
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by firefighter1990 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:37 pm

It might sting a little but there's no use living if you can't feel alive.

BFD
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by BFD » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:50 pm

No reason you can't reline or rebarrel to a more reasonable caliber and chambering. .50-140 is sorta crazy in so many ways (like brass for instance). And recoil, of course.

Doneal
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by Doneal » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:19 am

Ideally, I'd like to make it into a 50/70, but the existing chamber is too long to allow a chamber re-line. Setting the barrel back and rechambering is a no-go due to the tulip shape at the receiver. Anyhow, the collector buried deep in me balks at defiling an original rifle.
I think I still have a can of TrailBoss powder somewhere; that stuff is pretty slow and feeble for its bulk-- may allow a coward's load.
Or, does someone have a 50/70 take-off barrel they don't want?

User avatar
OLReliable
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:42 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by OLReliable » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:11 am

Have Shiloh r&r your barrel with a new Shiloh 50/70 barrel.
wyyyyyyy.... iiiyyyyyy ....awwwtttuh
OLR ..... out

BFD
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by BFD » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:41 am

Trailboss is slow, but it is not feeble. I have read somewhere that it produces a lot of pressure and needs a full case.

Don't trust what I just said, but check it out before you do it. I would reline that rifle in a heart beat. It is not a collectible and never will be. Make it what you want and will use. :)

semtav
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by semtav » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:05 am

I remember trying trail boss in my 45-120. Nice winter day. Case full of powder. About 400 yds. I kept going up and up on my sight setting til I hit the target then shot about 10 loads. Some hit some didn't. So I walked down to the target and about half way there I started noticing all these streaks in the snow. Finally figured out none of my bullets were reaching the target but were skipping along the frozen ground. Sight setting was way higher than normal just to do that. Last time I used trail boss. Black works way better.

firefighter1990
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by firefighter1990 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:14 am

Some more food for thought here: if your barrel is anything like my two examples, then the exact chamber length is only specified under the forend. So relining it and having the new liner chambered to 50 1-3/4" would still render the barrel markings as valid. Keep in mind that there are original sharps that we're sent back to the factory to be rechambered and sometimes they were marked with two case length on the barrel or the the original markings were simply x'd out but still legible; so it's sort of historically correct to do that.

An other way to go is to have it rebarreled but do keep the original barrel for collector purposes and make it a "complete set."

A friend of mine has an old farmingdale in the huge 50-140 and it takes every bit of 140 grains under a rcbs 50-515FN. I can't recall his twist rate in that barrel but it does pretty decent for "hunting accuracy." His was a light octagon with military butt. Yours may handle much better with a pistol grip, shotgun butt, and heavy barrel. I'd say shoot it first and if you desire something different then there's plenty of ways to go about it.

bobw
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by bobw » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:07 am

Gun was probably made in 82-83 time frame, mine is 70xx and made in November of 85. Way I understood it was they made about 3-400 a year. Mine has the same butt plate and is marked on the barrel and receiver the same. Mine has about 3/8" of overbored freebore. Check your freebore length and get back to me on that ,it will shoot probably not like a target rifle though. bobw
bobw

Doneal
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by Doneal » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:27 am

Haven't chamber cast it yet, so don't know about the free bore.

bobw
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by bobw » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:42 am

Don't need a chamber cast for this. Your barrel is 30" long, your chamber is 3 1/4" that leaves 26 3/4" of rifled barrel if no freebore. Go buy a new 3/8" hardwood dowel . Close the action on a empty chamber and stick the dowel in from the muzzle, rotate the dowel with a fine tipped felt pen held against the dowel. pull the dowel back 6", now open the action and insert a 50 cal bullet (flat based greaser) backwards into the chamber, push it gently until it stops with the erasered end of a wood pencil. close the breach till it stops on the side of the pencil. Now push gently the dowel to touch the base of the bullet and rotate it marking it with the felt tipped pen. open the action, remove the pencil and push the bullet out with the dowel . Now measure the distance between the marks on the dowel and subtract 3 1/4" that's the length of your freebore. If you want to shoot it and load your own, obviously you need to find the overall Cartridge length to seat the lands, whether you are shooting greasers or patch to groove dia. ppb's do the same thing again with the bullet nose FORWARD. Subtract this length from 30" and you have your maximum COAL. Can use a Delrin cleaning rod or other but must be able to clearly mark the rod for measurement. bobw
bobw

BFD
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by BFD » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:48 am

blue masking tape works really well for marking dowels or cleaning rods. Also good for measuring twist rates.

MacRob46
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Western North Carolina

Re: Lotsa' Markings!

Post by MacRob46 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:42 pm

RE: Trail Boss...

I have never loaded it in my .45-70 Shiloh LRE but have used it in .44-40 for rifle and pistol. At 50 yards with my Uberti 73, the recoil is negligible and it is very accurate, producing 1/2 inch groups. But the 6.0 grain load nearly fills the case, it is close to the base of the bullet. It is also a bit hard to meter because it is so light and fluffy. I cannot imagine using it in one of the big capacity cases.

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