Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Ask Shiloh questions about your Shiloh Sharps Rifle.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

Parrymd
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:35 pm

Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by Parrymd »

I inherited my dad’s Sharps Shiloh 45-70 Old Reliable and 50-70. The 50-70 has “use black power only” stamped on the barrel, the 45-70 does not. I was wondering if I can use modern rounds in the 45-70 instead of black powder. I’ve read some posts that say not to use jacketed bullets only lead bullets. Any recommendations for using modern rounds in the 45-70, jacketed or not? Both rifles were purchased in the 70s or early 80s.
User avatar
OLReliable
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:42 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by OLReliable »

What loads did your Dad shoot? I'd err on the side of caution, regardless. Besides, shooting a traditional Sharps may always LOOK "cool", while shooting smokeless w/ jacketed bullets in a Sharps might not always BE "cool". But, what do I know ....
wyyyyyyy.... iiiyyyyyy ....awwwtttuh
OLR ..... out
Parrymd
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:35 pm

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by Parrymd »

I forgot to add that these are not original shiloh rifles, but reproductions from shiloh arms. Don't know if that makes a difference.
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by jackrabbit »

Yes you can, but the bigger question is "Why?" I suppose you can kick yourself in the nuts, too, but I don't want to do it..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
BFD
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by BFD »

jackrabbit wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:14 am Yes you can, but the bigger question is "Why?" I suppose you can kick yourself in the nuts, too, but I don't want to do it..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cody you sure have a lot of "why" questions today. First paper patching, now this. :)
Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by Glen Ring »

A legitimate question I think...I've wondered the same thing about my 45-70. I have a lot of #2 alloy and a LOT of smokeless powder so maybe I might want to just play around or shoot a deer with it.
I tinker a LOT with BPCR stuff and paper patching...well, why the heck not try it? I've taken up the violin and it's noisy and monotonous ....kinda like shooting BPCR.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
rdnck
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:33 pm
Location: Woodlawn,Texas

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by rdnck »

You should stick with the violin. You will be a lot happier in the long run, I think. rdnck.
Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES
Charter Member FBASS

Charter Member OGANT
rdnck
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:33 pm
Location: Woodlawn,Texas

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by rdnck »

You should stick with the violin. You will be a lot happier in the long run, I think. rdnck.
Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES
Charter Member FBASS

Charter Member OGANT
Glen Ring
Posts: 904
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by Glen Ring »

Naw...Why would I do that ? I then would not get to be around cheerful and happy people!! Besides that...I'm becoming pretty good at this BPCR stuff..and if Paper patching is more accurate I'm gonna ask Brent to show me how to do it.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
77 sharps
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:45 pm
Location: N. CA

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by 77 sharps »

My first Shiloh from 1979 had a huge firing pin hole like the originals. Even when shooting black powder the pressure would push the unsupported primer deep enough into the hole that it would collect primer shavings in the firing pin hole when opening the action. If by modern ammunition you mean the Remington 405 grain load safe in the trapdoor rifles, it would be safe. If you mean a “hot” Garrett load, I would not even consider it. It likely would punch the primer into the firing pin hole and release high pressure right into your face.

Copper jackets and black powder do not mix well. If you apply copper fouling over black powder fouling, you might not get the fouling out. The BP fouling will attract moisture under the copper and cause pitting. Dissimilar metals and moisture will cause pitting very quickly.
User avatar
powderburner
Posts: 2987
Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 12:23 am
Location: elko nv.

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by powderburner »

The 50-70 sounds like an italian gun by the brief description which means not much other than being stamped with BP only you are on your own if you blow it up
The 45-70 could/should be proofed for smokeless as it is a sami spec ctg.
Your description of it is also quite vague as shiloh , old reliable and sharps all together either is a italian gun or one from across the street or a parts gun. So i guess a better description of the rifles would be nice to know.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by George Babits »

You are mistaken Dean, on not being a Shiloh because it is marked "Old Reliable" on the barrel. I'm not sure exactly when Shiloh lost their lawsuit with the place across the street, but up until that time, Shiloh rifles were marked "Old Reliable." All my Shiloh rifles are pre-Bryan and I think all but one are marked Old Reliable, The un-marked one is a late (9xxx) production carbine.

George
MSalyards
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:18 pm
Location: Nine Mile Falls Wa

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by MSalyards »

Kirk told me that I could shoot any factory ammo in my 45/70 and his rifles had as strong of an action as a Ruger #1. But black is more fun!
User avatar
powderburner
Posts: 2987
Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 12:23 am
Location: elko nv.

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by powderburner »

Could be george but they are not bryan rifles. And i just saw the pics. They are wolfs guns would you say. And the vague description was vague would you say? Pre brian shilohs are good guns i.have a couple. As i said if its 45-70 it is supposed to be proofed to sammi specs.
The pics are posted on a different thread.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Can I shoot modern rounds in my Shiloh 45-70?

Post by George Babits »

Dean,

If you will re-read my post you will see that I said they were pre-Bryan Shiloh rifles. I think there were about 10,000 rifles made by Wolf Droege, founder of the Shiloh Rifle company. The first Shiloh (or second) made in 30-40 Krag is serial numbered in the low 7700s and has the"Old Reliable" stamp on the barrel. I ordered that rifle in early December 1985 and received it is mid-January of 1986. I'm not sure when Wolf lost his lawsuit with the guy across the street, but it must have been in the late 1980's. The 30-40 I have was the last new Shiloh I bought. I have a later 45-70 SRC I got used without the "Old reliable" markings and it is serial number 97xx.

As for using smokeless powder, on the many of the earlier (Farmingdale mostly) the firing pins are the larger, original Sharps, sized firing pins. Early on, all the military Shiloh rifles and carbines had the big firing pins as the rifles closely mimicked the original Sharps. Soon, however, Wolf switched to the smaller firing pin, but the old larger ones were still available if someone wanted his rifle built that way. For heavy smokeless powder loads you definitely want the smaller diameter firing pin. Easy enough to check by removing the block. I'd guess that the 50-70 probably has the larger firing pin.

There's a pretty good article about Shiloh Rifles in the 1987 edition of Gun Digest. As I recall, it doesn't mention the lawsuit over the "Old Reliable" marking so Droege must have lost that right sometime after 1987.

George
Post Reply