question on 40/70 2.1 BN

[Bullit]

I'm new here and looking for some advice. I have a Shiloh Sharps 40/70 2.1 BN (short neck) with a 26" barrel. My vernier sights are 2.5" in height. I have about 80 rounds that were loaded 30 years ago. Most are smokeless 3031 with some polyfill in the cases and some are Pyrodex RS. Now the ones that are smokeless have a PP bullet that weights 322 gr. and is .155 inch across at the tip, loaded with 36 gr. of IMR 3031. What would the gent I bought the gun and ammo from use these for? The ones that have Pyrodex in launch a 396 gr., six banded GG, with the same dimension across the tip, 40 gr. of Pyrodex plus what appears to be 2 wads inside between bullet and powder. What would he use this cartridge setup for? All of these rounds are loaded except the two I pulled the bullets from to get an idea of what's going on. Should I pull all the rounds and start over with fresh powder,paper, etc. Also with the barrel length and sight height what type of competition would this gun be more attuned too? I know he used it for hunting but I think he did some competitive shooting too. I just don't know what kind. I would like to use it for both. Also I had read somewhere about the dangers of polyfill in the cartridges, damaging the chamber, is this true? I don't want to damage my gun. I would like to load with Old Eynsford and I need recommendations for a good mould maker and bullet weight. Three hundred ninety six gr. seems kind of heavy to me for a 40 but I don't know what he was using it for.

[Randy Bohannon]

No reference as to where the handload data the previous owner used came from ? If not pull them start over with printed data or just use real B/P. That’s where you will find joy , not that you can’t get the other stuff to work . The other stuff requires lots of fuss ,real B/P with it’s rules applied for your cartridge and rifle will be at it’s best with the least fuss.
Does your rifle have a B prefix on the serial # ? It makes a difference in your chamber as to how a bullet fits in the chamber to get accuracy . I would be afraid I would shoot them and lead the crap out of the barrel and have a real mess to clean up.
You are at the right place to get your rifle up and running , there’s ten thousand years or more of experience here and learning is fast and easy if you listen . Neat cartridge with potential in a great rifle.

[Randy Bohannon]

The 26” barrel is a good hunting length barrel would be a marginal length for silhouette that’s pretty short sight radius, a good rifleman could make use of it. It appears to me the previous owner was experimenting using smokeless then graduated to the Pyrodex while getting closer to real black powder. The six band bullet would be for silhouette or target work at about 600 yds +-

[bruce m]

or he hunted/plinked with smokeless, and shot sil with pyrodex?
if the 3031 loads were safe, just fire them off and get the cases.
the weight of the bullets suggests a length of bullet that will need a certain twist.
bruce.

[rdnck]

I definitely would pull them and start over. 36 grains of 3031 is not exactly a light load, and when you factor in a filler IN A BOTTLENECK and combine it with old reloads, you are looking for trouble. A friend of mine came up with a Shiloh 40-70BN a month or so ago, and a Saeco 645 over enough KIK 2f to come half way up the neck and a wax paper wad over the powder works like an absolute dream. He has killed two hogs with this rifle and load, shooting all the way through both of them. One was hit square on the shoulder and the bullet went through the shield on both sides, and the other was hit quartering away behind the last rib with the bullet coming out through the shield on the opposite front shoulder. Exit wound in both cases was about the size of a nickel. Both shots were about 100 yards. The 365 grain Saeco 645 shoots very well out to 500 yards, which is as far as we have tried it in this rifle.


This is a great caliber, and ours shot very well with an absolute minimum of load development. Filler in a bottleneck case scares me, quite frankly. Just pull the bullets from the ammo you have and start over. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[rdnck]

Way too early, and I had a major brain fart. That is a Saeco 640, NOT a 645. The Saeco 640 is what you want. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[rdnck]

Way too early, and I had a major brain fart. That is a Saeco 640, NOT a 645. The Saeco 640 is what you want. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[buffalocannon]

What Redneck said. If it were me, I would break down all the cases, FL size, trim, tumble etc., in other words the whole shooting match, and start from scratch with an appropriate BP load. You are dealing with old, smokeless ammo, apparently improperly loaded. This sport is dangerous enough without taking unnecessary chances. As Redneck said, there are any number of folks on this site who would be glad to help you with an appropriate BP load. I believe you have the round invented by Gunsmith Dan Phariss of Big Timber, MT, many years ago. Supposed to be adequate for silhouette and medium game but has no basis in history. Reading from my manual, Garbe/Venturino talk about a starting load of 60 grains of FFg under a 385-gr bullet.Good luck!

[Bullit]

Thanks for all the info guys, and btw there is no B in the serial number. The serial number is four digits and starts with an 8. I guess I'll go ahead and pull all the loads and start over. I'd feel better knowing what I have than not knowing. Thanks for the Saeco 640 tip. I still have lots of questions but I'll take it one step at a time.

[buffalocannon]

Call Shiloh

[Kirk]

Bullit
I posted on your other post, anyways call me and Ill tell you about it and why we haven't chambered it for 30 or so years.

Kirk

[bobw]

I shoot a 40-70 2.1" version with the short neck it has 70+ grains of case capacity. The version buffalocannon was talking about was known as the 40-70 Gov't which Garbe&Venturino feature in their BP Primer book it has the short powder chamber and long neck. Dan Phariss told me that there actually 3 versions based on the 2.1" (45-70) case. I'd shoot 1 of the pyrodex loads after pulling one apart to check for corrosion. If it looks ok shoot them up ,if they didn't blow up for the other guy why should they for you? Pull the ppb's and dump the smokeless loads. If you have the short neck version like mine you will find that the case will hold 70-75 grs F g powder. I load mine 1/2 way up the neck place acard was on top and compress the powder charge to just above the neck shoulder jct.3 /16" lube wad, another card wad. This leaves you apprx .125" to seat a.392" ppb patched to .399". Set a 40 S& W carbide sizer die in your press and adj it down far enough to size down the neck to hold your ppb in place. Then hand seat your ppb. I use KAL Tool 40 TGBS ADJUSTABLE mold set at 370 grs utilizing 1 to 30 alloy. These vintage Shilohs usually had a 1 in 18 twist so going heavier isn"t in your best interest. I won a local gong shoot last summer out to 400 yds with 19/20 score with it so they will shoot. Bobw