40 caliber questions

Ask Shiloh questions about your Shiloh Sharps Rifle.

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august west
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40 caliber questions

Post by august west »

What is the currently offered twist rate for Shiloh's 40 caliber barrels? Is more than one twist available? I'd prefer 1:14 if that is available.

Also, does Shiloh currently have a reamer for 40-70 based off of 405 Winchester brass as opposed to 30-40 Krag? I know PTG has a "40-70 Hornady" reamer and I've heard that Shiloh has used this in the past.

Thanks.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by Kirk »

I have 1x14 and 1x16 twist. I do not have a reamer for Hornady brass. Hornady was so far all over the place with neck thickness I just never bothered.
I hate big over size chambers and that's what you will have with .010" all the way up to .015" neck thickness, and that's how a lot of 300 pieces measured when I received it years ago.

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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by Jim Kidwell »

I agree, Kirk. The last lot I received from Hornady, varied in neck thickness from .0900 to .1500, and rim varied from .0680 to .0740. When I contacted Hornady, they said "Thanks", and that was all. Four or five years ago, it was the best. Oh well......
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august west
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by august west »

Thanks Kirk - as it turns out it won't actually be Hornady brass. I found a source of new old stock Jamison so will get a few hundred. Not sure if that's better or worse. I just don't like the idea of stretched out 30-40 brass with swaged rims to make up thickness. It's a me thing, I'll admit.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by rdnck »

Six or eight years ago, I got 100 rounds of Hornady brass for my 40-70 ss. I had to thin the rims and/or reduce the rim diameter on sixty or seventy of them for the breech to close. The neck thickness varied so much that the only thing I use them for is paper patched bullets as a .408 diameter grease groove bullet in those cases makes the neck diameter oversize to the point that the cartridge will not chamber. I refuse to neck turn my cases. Jamison brass is far and away the best for the 40-70 if you can find it. EASILY the best option is to get a 40-65. Properly loaded, it will do anything the 40-70 will do without the angst and drama. FWIW, I have a Shiloh in each caliber. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by rdnck »

Six or eight years ago, I got 100 rounds of Hornady brass for my 40-70 ss. I had to thin the rims and/or reduce the rim diameter on sixty or seventy of them for the breech to close. The neck thickness varied so much that the only thing I use them for is paper patched bullets as a .408 diameter grease groove bullet in those cases makes the neck diameter oversize to the point that the cartridge will not chamber. I refuse to neck turn my cases. Jamison brass is far and away the best for the 40-70 if you can find it. EASILY the best option is to get a 40-65. Properly loaded, it will do anything the 40-70 will do without the angst and drama. FWIW, I have a Shiloh in each caliber. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by august west »

I hear you, and I'm a long way from having to finally decide caliber I guess since I just ordered the rifle last month. But I have a source of Jamison so I'll stick with that for now. I'm with you on turning necks. I don't want to really do anything to the brass except anneal it and clean it and load it and shoot it, with occasional trimming maybe. That's the goal anyway. It's my dream - others have achieved it - why not me, I ask myself? :D
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by John Bly »

That must have been some of that 40/70 brass you sold me Jim. What a PITA it has been. I've finally got some of it working.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by art ruggiero »

build a 40/82 shiloh i love mine make brass from starline 45/90 reform and trim same powder capacity as 40/70 art
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by rdnck »

If you want a big 40, this is the best way to go. I know a fellow that built one a number of years ago, and got it shooting well enough to win a couple of matches with it. The 40-70ss , after you go through all the hassle and problems getting and keeping brass, can be a perfect bitch to get to shoot--and you never know when it is going to lay down on you. The only reason I have kept mine is that it is the prettiest rifle I have ever owned, and when it shoots, it is close to being a magic wand. But I never completely trust it. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by august west »

40-82 is a great option. But I hear this voice coming from this burning bush in my backyard, plus finding 500 new Jamison cases tells me that obviously this is my destiny.

My next question will be do I need anything other than the standard Shiloh chamber to run Jamison 405 brass? I'll get the brass and trim it and mike it and go from there I guess. Totally comfortable with getting custom reamers.

Next rifle will be a custom I'm working on... a 40-140 made out of stretched 44 magnum brass. :lol:
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by rdnck »

I thought you had scored some Jamison 40-70ss brass. Now we find out that it is Jamison 405 brass. There are bullet diameter differences with the 40-70s and the 405. The lady at Jamison told me that the reason their 40-70ss brass fit the Shiloh chamber so well was that they had a shop drawing of the Shiloh 40-70ss reamer and made their brass to fit that reamer. Trying to use the Jamison 405 brass is likely to cause problems you haven't considered yet, and if they crop up, you are going to blame Kirk Bryan and expect him to fix what will essentially be your screw up. You really need to discuss this with Kirk so he knows what he is dealing with going in. I ain't your burning bush, and for the life of me, I can't figure out why I am telling you this, other than I am trying to save Kirk from a potential headache he really doesn't need. rdnck.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by rdnck »

I thought you had scored some Jamison 40-70ss brass. Now we find out that it is Jamison 405 brass. There are bullet diameter differences with the 40-70s and the 405. The lady at Jamison told me that the reason their 40-70ss brass fit the Shiloh chamber so well was that they had a shop drawing of the Shiloh 40-70ss reamer and made their brass to fit that reamer. Trying to use the Jamison 405 brass is likely to cause problems you haven't considered yet, and if they crop up, you are going to blame Kirk Bryan and expect him to fix what will essentially be your screw up. You really need to discuss this with Kirk so he knows what he is dealing with going in. I ain't your burning bush, and for the life of me, I can't figure out why I am telling you this, other than I am trying to save Kirk from a potential headache he really doesn't need. rdnck.
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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by Kurt »

August,
The .40-70 is one of those calibers that some swear by them and some sear at them :D I'm one of those that swear by them. I used the .40-70 for many years and I really like the caliber but you will have to have the ability to make the cases work if you don't want to use the .30-40 Craig cases. I never had a problem with the Buff Arms stretched 30-40 cases and the rifle got very good accuracy using that brass. I have dust collectors I won at gong shoots using it.
The .405 Win brass you will have to do some work with even if you use the PP bullets. PP works fine with the thick case wall necks but the base bets to be a problem in the Shiloh chamber. The Harnady cases will stick about a 1/4" out of the chamber by average and you won't close the breach. I solved that by cutting a Lyman sizing down at the opening all the way to the threads and I used a Corbin swage press with a shell holder I made for the ram and I pushed the case all the way into the die till the rim made contact with the die and used a brass drift pin to drive the case back out of the die. When the base was swaged down to fit the chamber some cases needed to have the head thinned down so the breach block would close. Later I ended making a swage die for this job.
Forrester loading tools is just 15 miles from me so I went to them and took a couple fired cases that I could load a GG bullet with a snug fit and asked Bob if he would make a proper inside reamer. At that time I still had my Sheldon Lathe and putting the Hornady cases in a collet I reamed the inside of the case necks, I as well don't like the outside reaming. With all this work all is well but still I like the .30-40 brass Kirk said to use that Buffalo Arms had at that time. BA had this brass for the Shiloh and a different rim for the C-Sharps, so if you end up getting some of those cases make sure it's for the Shiloh.
I been using the same .30-40 cases going on 20 years and it still works just fine.

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Re: 40 caliber questions

Post by august west »

rdnck wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:04 pm I thought you had scored some Jamison 40-70ss brass. Now we find out that it is Jamison 405 brass. There are bullet diameter differences with the 40-70s and the 405. The lady at Jamison told me that the reason their 40-70ss brass fit the Shiloh chamber so well was that they had a shop drawing of the Shiloh 40-70ss reamer and made their brass to fit that reamer. Trying to use the Jamison 405 brass is likely to cause problems you haven't considered yet, and if they crop up, you are going to blame Kirk Bryan and expect him to fix what will essentially be your screw up. You really need to discuss this with Kirk so he knows what he is dealing with going in. I ain't your burning bush, and for the life of me, I can't figure out why I am telling you this, other than I am trying to save Kirk from a potential headache he really doesn't need. rdnck.
Nope, I never said I had 40-70 brass. I wouldn't blame Kirk for any of this. I'll be getting a custom reamer cut as there are just too many variables. I don't think I've screwed anything up.
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