midrange prone discussion

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Walt Walters, in a email to me said it was.

KennyWasserburger

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Jim Kidwell maybe you missed it.

Kenny

Some of the things I was working fell through, don’t know why at his point but the Arthur C. Jackson trophy with had been approved before somehow did not make the final cut. It has been approved by BP committee and the Comp Rules committee. A “Grand Senior” category for the rulebook recognizing national records in all courses of fire currently in the rulebook was approved. The committee put a caveat on the records however so for the first year only the high score in each record course of fire will be recognized. NRA will collect all the proposed records for the year and at the end of the year will issue the certificates for the records (high score only). This is to reduce the paperwork required by the skeleton staff. The new course of fire used at the nationals for the mid-range prone course of 300, 500 and 60 yards is official and also carries with it a national record in each category. I think that is all the official stuff that is pending.
I briefed the Director of Competitive shooting and reported to the committee that “with me” should be put in the national match program to try to get some of the non-attendees to attend. With me lets a competitor bring someone who has not attended in 3 or 5 years and both get some rebate on their entry fees. Could be anywhere between $20 to ½ the entry fee. That will be up to the director. Also proposed a “table” category for 2018. It would allow anyone to compete shooting from a table using the NRA adaptive shooting positions. In 2018 it would be a “Provisional category” where those entered would only compete for prizes within that category and not be eligible for winning the national championships. If it attracts enough people in 2018 we could then get people a temporary disability waiver and in 2019 they could compete for the national championships again using the NRA adaptive shooting positions. I will keep working on these two issues and hope the staff sees fit to incorporate them.

I couldn’t get anywhere with the medallions but am still working them.

If you could post this info on the forums for me I would appreciate that. I signed up twice but still no recognized or approved.

Regards

Walt

[Jim Kidwell]

Kenny,

I understand it is "proposed" class, but unless it is accepted by the Rules Committee it is not official. As a match director, I would certainly allow it on the local level, if it kept people in the game. Walt is one of the good guys at Fairfax and is a strong proponent of competitive shooting. I would hope the powers to be listen to him. He has his act together............................

[hepburn]

Were these proposed rules just for Raton or for the official rule book ? Nra does a poor job of publicizing things. The rule book is way out dated & you need to look on website for changes. Last update was for 2016 allowing Tollifson records-----still none posted & no mention in rules of what a Tollifson gun is. Also no space in records for the new midrange course. They are still understaffed & clueless.

[hepburn]

Were these proposed rules just for Raton or for the official rule book ? Nra does a poor job of publicizing things. The rule book is way out dated & you need to look on website for changes. Last update was for 2016 allowing Tollifson records-----still none posted & no mention in rules of what a Tollifson gun is. Also no space in records for the new midrange course. They are still understaffed & clueless.

[SSShooter]

You aren't really surprised about the NRA, are you? Until Shiloh, C. Sharps, CPA, DZ Arms, etc., start making ARs and action pistols of some sort we will get nothing from the NRA.

[beltfed]

Like it or not, its all about the numbers of participants = fees
Hi Power is declining into F-class- prone benchrest as the
shooting fraternity AGES
We NEED young blood .
Each of us needs to look for and help younger people to
get into our game. "aside from NRA"
beltfed/arnie

[gunlaker]

Completely agree on minimum vertical at 600 is essentially the goal to reach.

I have, however, come to the realization that falling short is not always the fault of rifle or load.

Zack the first experiments are complete. I shot the new .40-65 with the 1:14 twist 32" barrel this weekend at Worland. The rifle held very consistent vertical at 600, but I still didn't manage to shoot better than a 90 at 600. The rifle certainly holds vertical very well, enough to keep them in the 10 ring for sure. Although the new rifle shot quite well, I don't think it did anything that I couldn't have done as well with my 1:16 twist #3 rifle. Conditions were quite tricky though with moderate, but fishtailing winds.

Going to a heavier version of the "Kidwell" bullet would likely be a small but worthwhile improvement. A shooter I respect very much suggested that a .45 would be the best path forward however

Chris.

[bruce m]

chris,
i had made that bullet with an extra band and groove.
it is a nice looking bullet, and of course carries 1 more groovefull of lube.
mine was an experiment still in progress.
only the base band and the next one up are groove diameter, all the rest being bore diameter.
the harder alloys so successful with pp bullets do not seem to work well with it, and need to try something softer.
i think bumpup is happening in the grooves more than on the bands.
keep safe,
bruce.

[gunlaker]

Bruce I was thinking of a similar modification to the bullet. I ended up using that bullet because I already had the mold. Also in a discussion with Dan several years back he said that the 409400M4 was probably only marginally stable at 600 in a 1:16 twist so I thought that I might get a small improvement out of it just with the tighter twist.

I'll have to think about it a little more. I don't really have any way to practice at 600 on paper, but I think I will have a gong made up that will emulate the bull out to the 9 ring and see if I can learn something.

I did shoot my best total score for Worland this year, but I think it was the extra effort I've been putting in at 300 rather than mostly shooting at 200m.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Chris if you have a place to shoot 600, just get one of the Calwell target camera's and a box of the 600 yard targets.

[desert deuce]

Chris, it sounds like you are on the right path. At most a bit of load tweeking might help.
In shooting competition there is a lot to be said in favor of developing one good load for a rifle and sticking with it.
Again, it there are problems look to the bone structure holding the rifle.

[gunlaker]

Zack I've never spent a huge amount of effort tweaking loads to be honest. Most of the time, assuming that I have found the right bullet for the chamber, it's a pretty simple matter to find a load that will hold the ten ring ( on the reduced 600 yard target ) for vertical at 200m and 300 yards which is where I shoot. Then I spend as much time shooting prone as possible. Once I have a starting point, I'll make a few small tweaks to minimize vertical. Then I just shoot some more.

I think I'm a pretty good holder, although I have had targets where I completely lost it on the trigger. Not this year though. I don't think I broke any shots where the cross hairs were not well inside the 10 ring. Wind reading was pretty good as I had Herr Wasserburger spotting for me. We also shot beside the team of Rick Moritz and Jack Odor. It doesn't hurt to keep an eye on their targets and an ear on their wind calls

I might spend a little more time with loads this year though. I'm pretty careful when I make my ammunition, but you can always go a little further down that road. I'm starting to look at loading the way you would a manufacturing process with quality control measurements along the way for verification.

Also, I just bought a few of the Shiloh inline seater dies on my way through Big Timber.

Mostly I will be buying an 18" gong for 600 yard shooting to emulate the 600 yard target out ti the 9 ring. I'll do repeated testing with my .40-65 vs. .45-70 & .45-90. On paper there really shouldn't be much difference, but maybe there is. I will burn a lot of powder to see if I can find out what works best for me.

Chris.