Another PP Question

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mongo40
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Another PP Question

Post by mongo40 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:06 am

I will eventually get around to trying the PP thing but need a little info, don't like buying stuff I don't need. Wondering what size mold I should get? Currently I have a Lee Mold that throws a 500 gr. RN solid base .459 bullet that I've been shooting out of my Taylor & Co. 45-70 Sharps. I took a lead bullet and drove it into my Shiloh Sharps barrel lastnight then popped it back out an mic'd it and got .452, so wondering what size mold I should get for my Shiloh. Since this PP thing is new to me I may ask a totally stupid question but please bear with me, I was in the Infantry for 22 yrs and we like pictures! Was wondering if I could get a bullet sizer and run my current bullet through it to resize it down to a proper PP size? Or please recommend a mold for it. Thanks.
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Crash Landing
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by Crash Landing » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:53 am

mongo40
To determine the proper bullet size for a PPB; one approach is to measure the thickness of the patch paper you intend to use with a micrometer. Multiply that by 4 for a double-lap patch. Subtract that value from the BORE (not groove) diameter of your barrel, the result will be the bullet diameter for your barrel. I recommend you go online and purchase PPB slugs of a size closest to your desired diameter. Test fire various loads using those bullets to determine what works in your rifle. That way, for a relatively small outlay of $, you can determine the exact size you need before buying a PPB mold. Make sense?
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mongo40
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by mongo40 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am

Yeap makes sense! I think I can figure your math out. Does anyone sell PPBs in small quanities to do as you suggest? Thanks
Chris Wilson

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Don McDowell
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by Don McDowell » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:01 pm

If that's a B serial number rifle, a .446 diameter bullet wrapped in either Seth Cole 55Y or 55w is awfully hard to beat for accuracy shooting. For hunting a .442 wrapped in 9 lb cotton works well.
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by TAA » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:52 pm

Crash Landings suggestion is a good one!

That’s how I got started with PP. Bought the slugs (50 in a box) from BACO and had several examples of paper. I found that 9# onion skin paper from BACO worked well. Then I took it one step further and ordered a 2-diameter PP mold from Steve Brooks. That’s all I’ve shot this summer. Done with greasers.

Tom

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Distant Thunder
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by Distant Thunder » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:33 pm

Tom,

Once you've had success with paper patch it's awfully hard to go back to grease groove bullets isn't it! I've been off the grease for 11 years now and have never been even tempted to go back.

mongo40,

Good luck to you. Crash gives you some good advise. There are a few key points to follow for paper patching but once you get those nailed down it's so much easier than grease groove you'll wonder why anyone would shoot anything other than paper patch. Enjoy the journey!
Jim Kluskens
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What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn?

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

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Re: Another PP Question

Post by BFD » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:45 pm

mongo40 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am
Yeap makes sense! I think I can figure your math out. Does anyone sell PPBs in small quanities to do as you suggest? Thanks
You will be better served to wrap your paper around something of known diameter (e.g., drill bit shank) and measuring it. Then you know what your paper will really add to your bullet.

I do not believe Shiloh ever made a barrel that would measure .452 across the lands or the grooves. I'm very skeptical of that measurement. You want the land diameter. It will be .450

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bpcr shooter
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by bpcr shooter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm

hes shooting a Taylor and Co. rifle, not a Shiloh
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BFD
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by BFD » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm

bpcr shooter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm
hes shooting a Taylor and Co. rifle, not a Shiloh
My mistake. I missed that.

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Re: Another PP Question

Post by BFD » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm

bpcr shooter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm
hes shooting a Taylor and Co. rifle, not a Shiloh
My mistake. I missed that.

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Re: Another PP Question

Post by bpcr shooter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:53 pm

I have a straight sided .443 elliptical nose mold, I could send you a few to try out. Patched with .002 paper, you should be just under bore.

You state you don't want to buy stuff you don't need........Then I would just jump into the DDPP bullet group and be done!! fire a round clean it, DO NOT RE-SIZE, measure it and deduct paper thickness, that will be your base dia ( only measure in .080-to .100 in), then measure bore, deduct paper again that will be your bullet body dia. Making a chamber cast will tell you free bore. See if you can find one that closely matches your dimensions from Buffalo Arms, they are great to deal with!! You most likely only be seating these in .080-.100 in the case with just enough crimp to hold the bullet from falling out while handling it. They shoot fantastic!!

You will end up with something like this...........https://www.buffaloarms.com/443-495-gra ... m443495epp.
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mongo40
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by mongo40 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 pm

Thanks for all the advice, and I said I was shooting a 500 gr GG bullet in a Taylor but was wanting to try a PPB in my Shiloh Sharps Thanks guys!

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Re: Another PP Question

Post by 77 sharps » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:48 am

BPCR shooter

Isn’t that a.44 caliber bullet. Do you mean JIM453545E?

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Distant Thunder
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Re: Another PP Question

Post by Distant Thunder » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:02 am

I would like to add to this that it is exceedingly important to keep the bullet length, whether GG or PP, a bit under what various methods of calculating such things will tell is the maximum length that a given twist will stabilize. I know that .020" doesn't sound like it would make much of a difference but believe when I say it will. You can push the upper edge of length if you want but you will pay for it when the winds are active.

That is my one fault with some of the BACO designs, they push the limits of what a .45 caliber 18-twist will stabilize well. If your shoot an 18-twist .45 I would strongly advise you have you mold made at 1.440", you will be rewarded with a bullet that holds up much better in quartering heads winds.

And yes pushing a long bullet faster will help but not much and less as the range is extended.

I know we all want to shoot a .45 caliber bullet that weighs 550 grains and is 1.500" long and I know the ODGs shot little tiny groups at 1000 yards with their 1 in 20 rifles but it isn't going to happen every day in real life. One group tells you very little about what works day in and day out.

Make sure you get a bullet that fits YOUR rifle in all dimensions including the length.
Jim Kluskens
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What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn?

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

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Re: Another PP Question

Post by beltfed » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:30 am

AMEN to what DT said.
Go conservatively on bullet length vs twist. Err on the short side , not the long side
beltfed/arnie

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