Over primer wads

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

JonnyV
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Carnation, WA.
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by JonnyV » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:47 am

Yeah I’m gonna play with this some… Probably bracket tested a couple of steps in each direction. I’d like to see a little more velocity but I guess I can live with it the way it is as long as accuracy holds up. Also, you got to keep in mind these are range scrap bullets. I think the load will get a little bit better when I start in with John Walters certified 20-1 alloy.

User avatar
desert deuce
Posts: 3278
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: Over primer wads

Post by desert deuce » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:50 pm

Try that load or something similar at 1,000 yards before you leave that velocity.
1297 fps will get you to 1,000 yards with that bullet in good shape I am pretty sure.
Maybe do a ladder load check.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!

flatsguide
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Over primer wads

Post by flatsguide » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:20 am

Jonnyv, thanks for posting your info. What was your SD before using the over primer wads?
ThanksRichard

JonnyV
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Carnation, WA.
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by JonnyV » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:04 am

flatsguide wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:20 am
Jonnyv, thanks for posting your info. What was your SD before using the over primer wads?
ThanksRichard

It was a little higher. I haven’t had much time for loading lately. Hopefully I’ll get back to it after thanksgiving. Running a bracket test in this load will be a priority for me.

Coltwcf44
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:53 pm
Location: Powell Wyoming

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Coltwcf44 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:15 pm

Since I'm still really new at this, I'llhave to ask. What is the reason for using an over primer wad and what result would I expect to see?

Kenny Wasserburger
Posts: 4457
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
Location: Gillette, Wyoming

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:06 pm

At relatively short distances you won’t see much of any difference.

However at the chronograph I have seen my ES cut in half and my SD’s often well under 3-4 FPS.

Where it shows up is in vertical, at long range especially, a real eye opener was at 1 mile where I set a record for #of hits in a 10 shot string of fire of 8/10.

A later measurement showed my hits were in 18 inches from top strike to bottom strike, at 1 mile.

KW
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

JonnyV
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Carnation, WA.
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by JonnyV » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:29 pm

So today I did another test...We are starting prep for the next shooting season right now, focusing on the Quigley, but would like to shoot in the big Shiloh match as well, maybe another one or two if work schedule allows...

So this load was 72 gr of 1.5 Swiss under an .060 fiber wad with a slick newsprint wad between the fiber and the bullet ("release wad" keeps the bullet from sticking to the fiber) and an over primer wad (nitrite paper) that keeps powder from packing into the flash hole and messing with ignition, .300" compression...

14 shots recorded in this string...

Image

I'm not real pleased with this, I figure I can cut the SD by at least half. We ran this test still using range scrap alloy for the bullets. The mold is a 535 grain Brooks New Postell, first two bands reduced. I will say that loading the Swiss is a LOT nicer than loading OE. For whatever reason, the OE I have looks like the crud I get in the tube sand bags from Home Desperate. Non-uniform grain size, splashes out of the case (not sure why) and chronograph results not as good.

Learning BP is a butt-load of fun! Might get my buddy Logan (big time precision shooter) to jump ship to the dark side LOL...He wants to borrow a rifle for a buffalo hunt next year...he'll be hooked before he knows it LOL....

Gussy
Posts: 1513
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: WA, dry side
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Gussy » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:21 am

In regard to powder bouncing out of the case.

I finally put an O ring at the bottom of my drop tube to somewhat seal the opening. And a couple wraps of masking tape to keep me from pushing the O ring up.

sandhillcowboy1
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:36 pm

Re: Over primer wads

Post by sandhillcowboy1 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:36 am

Gussy’s solution sounds like it would work well to keep powder from bouncing out of case when drop tubed. I drilled a hole in a sweat copper cap that just fit my drop tube and then inserted the drop tube in to where it extends through slightly. Soldered it on. The fitting just fits around .45 cal cases and also works well on .40 cases. The inside of cap sets down on case neck. No powder jump out.

Rick
SHCB1

Woody
Posts: 5833
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:02 am
Location: Freetown, Indiana

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Woody » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:39 am

I solved the bouncing powder by placing a small diameter funnel on the bottom of my drop tube. Place the funnel over the case and the case is sealed against the inside angle of the funnel. Works with any case neck from 38 to 50 cal.

The tube is made from a piece of straight stainless brakeline from NAPA. I attached a RCBS powder funnel to the top of it. The bottom funnel is turned on a lathe and made from solid brass bar stock, then soft soldered to the brake line.

Woody

Oh - I still don't use primer wads. My experience did not show any measurable improvement by using them. YRMV.
Richard A. Wood
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.

Kurt
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Kurt » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:14 am

You defeat the purpose of the drop tube if you stick the tube in the case mouth. Pulling it out of the case you loosen the powder or even spill it out of the case.
This copper sweat reducer fits the .38 to 50 caliber cases when you use a 3/8 ID or OD copper pipe. I like the 3/8 OD.
Nothing gets spilled unless you overfill the case. :D
As far as using a under the primer or under the powder wad I don't see any difference for it making any difference with the ES or SD. The only difference I have any effect is defacing the breach blocks.
IMG_3150.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill

JonnyV
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Carnation, WA.
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by JonnyV » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:18 am

Good idea! Think I’ll go do the same thing….

Kurt
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: Over primer wads

Post by Kurt » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:37 am

This is what happen using the primer wads with two rifles I have. The top block is from the .50-2.5 Shiloh
The bottom is from the CPA .44-90 BN.
I caught the Shiloh block sooner than the CPA because I pull the Shiloh block usually after shooting to clean the rifle. The CPA is a little tougher to put back together again so I don't pull it as much.
The back pressure from the primer causes the primer blow by.

IMG_3677.JPG
IMG_3084.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill

JonnyV
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
Location: Carnation, WA.
Contact:

Re: Over primer wads

Post by JonnyV » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:52 pm

My rifle shows no such wear…I wonder if Kenny’s rifle looks like that? Anyone else using primer wads?

kwilliams
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:42 am
Location: Montana

Re: Over primer wads

Post by kwilliams » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:19 pm

That erosion looks like it could have been caused by loose primer pockets? I have used primers wads now for 3 years in 2 rifles, so far so good.
kw

Post Reply