Verifying my load.

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:26 pm

While new to metallic BP shooting , I've experience with muzzleloading and reloading smokeless pistol and rifle. Since receiving my 45-70 Roughrider, I've been reading and reading.

Here's my question, I've cast 500gr bullets (4groove) lubed and plan to load them into new Starline brass with a 65gr's of ffg goex and a .030 card. Trickling powder down a 18 inch tube into the case.

When loaded I easily seated the bullet, compressing the powder, to the top of the 4th grease groove. Does this sound correct.

All the literature indicated this is OK, and that BP is forgiving in a modern action, but I'd like to hear from experienced metallic case reloaders.


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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by semtav » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:48 pm

All except the part about seating the bullet then compressing the powder.
Not saying you can't get by using the bullet, just not the best method.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by Ray Newman » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:58 pm

SEMTAV is spot on by on! Try chambering the loaded rounds. By utilizing the bullet to compress the powder, you may have "bumped up" (increased) the bullet's diameter and that would prevent or make chambering difficult.

Buffalo Arms Company sells a complete powder compression die or you can just purchase the compression die stem for use in the case flaring die.
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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:24 pm

Thank you both. I have the compression die on order due next week. Just wanted to verify before lighting any off this weekend.

All the rounds chamber smoothly. Although I did have to clean leading off several cases after seating bullets. A few formed small ridges at the casing mouth, came off with a fingernail.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by MC One Shot » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:00 pm

Amprat, If you are having leading outside of your case mouth then you need to bell your case mouth more. You may have to adjust your seating die so that the bullet seats and then sizes the bell back. Or you can seat your bullet then resize the bell in a separate die. I use a sizing die with the depriming rod removed just to give enough neck tension to hold the bullet in place.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:01 pm

Finally shook out some free time to hit the range. Little cool, almost negligible wind, Set up at the 100 yard line. 40m points and I had 38 between me and the lone pistol shooter. Made for some nice no pressure time to shoot, pause, reflect, clean, and shoot again. I am impressed with how easy shooting the Shiloh is! What nice triggers!

Both string would have put meat on the table but nothing to get excited about. First string was 7x7 inches, second was 6x7 inches. both had two shots touching. The rest drifting right of the bulls eye. Barrel break in, inconsistent measure between loads, inconsistent compression? Older eyes and iron sights?

Not sure, I can tell you the loading can be more consistent, that's fairly easy to rectify, as can the consistency of my casting bullets (better regulated pot temperature). I also am not too proud to say I had a hard time focusing on the bullseye (eyesight).

May need to scope the rifle, I think the days of iron sights and apertures may be behind me for target shooting. Going to look at the MVA 3K & 4K scopes again.
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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:04 pm

I should add, no leading, and the fouling pushed right out. Easy peasy.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by Kurt » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:51 pm

With that buckhorn sight it might help you to take a knife file and open the notch a little. It will help your dimming eyes to see the front blade better.
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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:11 pm

Kurt, I'll give that a go.

Cast another 50 bullets on Monday. Spent some time today sorting them by weight after sizing. My 500 grain bullets are mostly weighing in the 486~488 gr range. I set the outliers into the remelt bin. Filled the cases with 70 +/-.2gr of FFg Goex thru the drop tube.

Set a .030 wad on top and used the compression die to give .650 overall compression including the wad. Bullets seat to the bottom of the top band, just enough to keep krud out of the lube.The sized and lubed bullets literally just pressed in by hand and seated properly. No lead shavings this time !

So the long and short I have 20 rounds ready to go. Maybe next week I'll have time to see if the groupings are better.

Guess we'll see how it goes.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by bpcr shooter » Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am

your not re-sizing your brass correct? Did you start at zero compression and work up until you found a load that worked well? Just changing a primer can have drastic affects on your group size.
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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:28 am

@bpcr , I've started with Starline virgin brass. So once fired and cleaned they're going into the anneal pile; after that I expect other than checking length no further die operations. I'm using Federal magnum primers because that's what I had. I'm picking up cci LRP's next week. A friend is parting with 1K in trade.

Only two operations the brass is seeing is flaring the mouth to .459, and chamfering inside the primer pocket to remove flash.

The compression allows me to seat the bullets close to COL with no lube exposed. If I seat them to the rifling only, there's a lot of space in the case to fill. Don't have the exact measurements at hand, but it was around 2.94 inches and around two grooves fully exposed. Kind of long like a PP cartridge I saw a pic of.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by amprat » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:27 pm

I spent some casting this afternoon. Kept 62 after sorting deformed ones out. Using Lyman#2 and a PID controlled RCBS pot. Much better results today. The last batch were cast from a LEE Magnum that I couldn't keep regulated.

Sorted by general weight xxx.0gr thru xxx.9gr and so on. Load another twenty after dinner.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by desert deuce » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:03 am

Shooting at 100 yards you may not see any difference in bullets weighing within three grains as long as the edges of the bases are sharp and well filled out.

Maybe try loading in reverse. Set your overall cartridge length so the driving band of the bullet is either touching or 30 thou into rifling.

Figure how much powder it takes for zero compression to hold the bullet at that length.

Start adding wads anywhere for 30-50 thou at a time.. Two rounds at each compression, add wad load two more, etc until you get to about
.300 compression.

You can do this at 100 yards with open iron sights. Better at 200 with either scope or aperture sights.

Put up two targets side by side and shoot one each of your increasing compression loads from least to most compression on each target.

The target will tell you which compression. With 2F Goex I have gone as high as .400 compression.

If you have to have all grease grooves covered use a 30 thou HDPE wad and start out compressing the powder .200" then increase by 30 thou until you get the group you want. And for a hunting load you may have to at least partially size the mouth of the case. It is all something you have to work out with your rifle.
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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:08 pm

Loose the Lyman #2 Alloy. Get a good lead tin alloy, start at 20-1. Binary alloys….you can thank us later.

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Re: Verifying my load.

Post by Woody » Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:00 pm

Loose the Lyman #2 Alloy. Get a good lead tin alloy,
Totally agree with Kenny.

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