First shot,clean barrel

Jay Glenn · Post by **Jay Glenn** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:54 pm

Folks: Question I have about that 1st shot from a clean barrel hitting several inches from point of aim. Has any one experimented with preping the clean barrel with a lubed patch before shooting? My concern is with hunting and getting that 1st shot to hit point of aim. I can do this myself but thought I would ask those of you out their that may have tried this.
Jay Glenn
Missouribreaks

Rick Crabtree · Post by **Rick Crabtree** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:49 pm

I coat my bore with a very liberal dose of my bullet lube. It helps though I have not found it to be a total cure. My first shot with a "lubed" barrel still goes 1-2 inches higher than a fouled barrel depending on which load. But this is a condition I can live with. Remember to make sure to clean the chamber very well after coating the bore with lube, you don't need excessive bullet lube in your chamber.

Jerry Williams · Post by **Jerry Williams** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:42 am

Jay, Glenn Competitive shooters have been using this trick for a while. When I plan a long session at the bench, I first coat the bore with "Slick 50". I do not know why this works, but it does. I also will use a home made version of "BoreButter" using a bore mop. With the first method I can shoot much longer and the first shot is pretty close. The experiments continue. Good Luck.

Vbull · Post by **Vbull** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:28 am

Although I've never coated my bore, I've noticed the same thing about the first shot. Typicaly, it runs about 2 - 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yds. To me, thats not going to be a problem under hunting conditions.
I hunt whitetails here in the east with a Trapdoor carbine and the several I've shot were all inside of 75 yards or so. I've also worked up a duplex load that is relativly mild but still keeps the bore clean enough for several follow up shots if needed without the need for a blow tube.
If the use of a clean bore really bothered me, I'd probably fire a smokeless round thru the rifle and leave it uncleaned until the next time a Black powder round was fired thru it. Good luck with the upcoming season. Frank M.

Timberlake · Post by **Timberlake** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:05 pm

Folks,

My first shot comes out of a clean, dry barrel. For setting my hunting sights, I simply clean after every shot. Bullets group OK. Most of my hunting consists of shots at 150 yds or less. I'm not bragging, but I can't remember the last time two shots were required.

TL

BIG50 · Post by **BIG50** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:54 pm

Hello

I run a bore mop coated with bore butter after each group of 8 shots or at the end of shooting after a full cleaning. I then store the rifle away until the next time I shoot and do not wipe the bore clean or even the chamber for that matter. Any extra lube around the action heats up and runs down into the action and acts as an excellent rust preventative as it does for the barrel during storage. Dropping the action I have encountered absolutely no rust even after several months
of shooting.

As far as first shot location I have not noticed any diference from the other shots in my groups contrary to what many others have said. This is done with a Sharps BIG50, 50-100-612 or 50-90-724 loads.

Question to Rick Crabtree about his opinion of butter in the chamber. Just curious what he thinks it hurts and why?

Thanks!

BIG50

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:48 pm

I do prelube a clean bore with either slick 50 or bore butter. A trick I use, is to put an empty case in the chamber, close the action and lube from the muzzle. Almost never any lube in the chamber area.
Doz

Rick Crabtree · Post by **Rick Crabtree** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:20 pm

Excessive lube in the chamber can have a hydralic effect and raise pressures or even cause chamber swelling. Also can cause case to expand un evenly. The latter is the only problem I have ever personally encurred.

BIG50 · Post by **BIG50** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:08 am

I see Rick. Ill take that under advisement.

Thanks!

BIG50

Vbull · Post by **Vbull** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:31 am

Guys,

I thought I'd post this as a follow-up to this year's deer season. I was using a trapdoor carbine in 45-70 with a duplex load. I use duplex while hunting because there is no need for a blow tube to manage fouling. Before leaving for my trip, I fired a smokeless round which cleaned out any lubricant from the bore. After successfully using it on my first deer of the season, I fired another smokeless round to clean the bore. The smokeless rounds were some leftover 330 grain Goulds that never shot very good in this trapdoor. I used the Lyman 420 grain flat nose in my hunting load. The rifle was left this way for one week without cleaning and there were no problems with corrosion. I hope you all had a successful season this year. Frank M.

Josh A. · Post by **Josh A.** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:38 am

Big 50:
I would suggest you be very careful with the bore butter product. I know many have used it for years and had no problem, but there are many muzzle loaders that did the "seasoning" thing with bore butter and later cleaned down to the steel and found they had pitted their barrel. Post on the BP-L about it and see if Bill Knight will give you a run down on it.

If you want to use bore butter for pre-lubing, etc it would be safer to clean the barrel and all metal surfaces perfectly clean and oil with a good rust preventative product.

Take care,

Josh

ffffgdave@yahoo.com · Post by **ffffgdave@yahoo.com** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:19 am

if your gun shoots the first round 2 1/2 inches high the first shot and then a 1/2 inch group after that you hunting load shoots a 2 1/2 inch group. if your gun shoots a 1 1/2 group with the first one 1 1/2 inches high then the hunting gun shoots a 1 1/2 (3 or whats on the paper) inch group.. if the hunting guns first shot shoots 5 inches high on the first round and the rest a 1/4 inch group your hunting gun shoots a 5 inch group.. so your groups must include, first shot placement, cold weather, warm weather, high humidity, low humidity,, etc etc etc.... try different bullets, powder , primers to get the best group for hunting.. i can shoot 2 shots with black powder and then must use blow tube.. from muzzeloading experience the two shots probably need to be shoot one right after the other... as air drys the foulding it tends to set up hard as rocks.... hope this helps, dave..

Bearbait2 · Post by **Bearbait2** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:28 am

VBull,
Would you be so kind as to share the specifics of your Trapdoor duplex load? Thank you.
Shoot Straight

Jay Glenn · Post by **Jay Glenn** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:26 am

Thanks for all the response to this topic and the great info. I have Paul Mathew's books reguarding the 45/70 and his experience with black powder shooting. In his volume " Black Powder, Pig Lead and Silhouettes" he talks about seasoning the bore. He used pure neatsfoot oil on a patch. Just enough to give the bore a light coat. Did not cause any rusting between shooting sessions. Did mention to be sure and dry the chamer throughly before shooting. This method would get his first shot in the group. I tried this myself with my Shiloh 45/70 and it seemed to work quite well. Did the testing at 200 yrds. 1st shot was about 1 1/2" above the last 4 shots in a 5 shot group. This I sure can live with. Now I was using a 20:1 alloy mix with 62 gr. of Swiss 1 1/2 and a lube of 4 parts bee wax.3 parts laniloin and 3 parts Kanolia oil. This lube is ok but leaves a rather hard lube star at the muzzel. I can't say for sure if the lube had any thing to do with this result or a total of this particular combination. Would like to think that using the pure neats foot oil did the trick. Used this load to shoot my buffalo this fall and 1st shot went exactly where I wanted it to go so can't complain. Will do more experimenting for sure.
Do recommend Mathew's books. Lots of most valuable info.

Merry X-Mas to all

Vbull · Post by **Vbull** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:22 pm

Bearbait2,
This is the load that I’ve been using in my trapdoor as a hunting load. It has worked for me, but all disclaimers apply. Remington cases, not full length sized, but enough so the bullet is a snug fit. Full length is probably OK though. Federal 215 primer, Lyman 457193 cast @ 30:1 weighing 419 gr. A tablet backing wad .045 thick, 5.5 gr of IMR 4759 and 55.0 gr of Goex FG. I determine the amount of Black powder by adding enough to get about .100” compression. The amount of powder may vary due to case capacity, etc…. Velocity is around 1250 fps as I remember. I can’t find the chrono data as I worked up this load a number of years ago. Accuracy is around 2 2 1/2" @ 100 yds after reworking the front sight blade and cutting the rear notch so I can see it better. I’ve used it on several whitetails and none of them went further then 75 yds. All were punched thru the ribs/lungs at less then 100 yds. . Good luck. Frank M.

Shiloh Rifle Forums

First shot,clean barrel

First shot,clean barrel

Bore Butter

First shot,clean barrel again