Petroleum Products and Black Powder

Orville · Post by **Orville** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:43 am

This idea of not mixing petroleum products and black powder is the biggest -piece of crock- BS Iâ€™ve heard in years. I havenâ€™t said any thing before, but when Iâ€™m seeing nice guns rusting and pitting from the lack of a little oil itâ€™s time to say something.
I and Dennis have been using petroleum products â€“ grease and oil in our black powder guns for over 40 years. We used grease from the grease gun at the service station we worked at for a patch lube in our muzzle loaders. Grease was the only thing we used on our cap and ball revolver cylinders, we put liberal amounts of the grease on shaft the cylinder turned on and pushed it into the recess in the frame where the back of the cylinder goes. We could shoot all day long and never had trouble with the cylinder locking up from fouling.
We used 3-in-one oil to oil the bore and the whole gun when we finished cleaning. Our guns still look like new except for handling wear.
About 20 years ago I started using Sheath, a Birchwood Casey product, I started using it for its moisture displacing properties and at one time it also had finger print remover in it. I oil the bore with it and spray the whole gun with it and then wipe off the excess I leave the bore wet with it and then wipe it with one dry patch before I shoot it, I wipe so the patch on the bullet doesnâ€™t get soaked with oil when I chamber it.
I still use 3-in-one oil to oil moveing parts in a firearm.

martinibelgian · Post by **martinibelgian** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:28 am

Orville,

Ditto on the subject - everyone keeps repeating the 'no-petroleum-product' mantra, while for 99% there isn't any truth to it. I'll happily shoot a parraffin-based lube without any ill effects - in fact, I consider it to be better than beeswax for the purpose.
Kinda like the 'no airspace with BP'-thing. Somebody once wrote it, and everyone keeps on repeating it, but... I've been shooting lots of 'airspace included' loads in an several original 19th century rifles, and both myself and the rifles are still fully intact. Actually, accuracy is pretty good! They 'll probably call us heretics and tryto burn us at the stake now...

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:41 am

I used to make a Black Powder bullet lube with parafin and 10-W-30 motor oil. Worked great with Maxi type bullets in my muzzle loaders. When I first started BPCR, I used this same mixture for a short time and it worked fine but not as good SPG and other "modern" BPCR lubes.

Woody

Free_Stater · Post by **Free_Stater** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Orville, about twenty years ago I got back into shooting BP revolvers and was looking for an easy way to fill the area over the bullets in the chambers. What I hit on was a cake decorating syringe full of petroleum jelly, i.e. Vaseline. After a while I started using it on the base pin as well.

It works just fine. When I was 16 I melted Vaseline and paraffin together for an over the bullet packing, and that worked well, too.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:01 pm

I think some of the stuff comes from folks that have had some pretty miserable results with smokeless cast bullets and bp.
Never have figured out where some of this other crap about what you can or can't put in a rifles bore came from..

bryany · Post by **bryany** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:56 pm

Orville, I've always been of the opinion that using any of the various solvents and cleaning solutions that are petroleum based would be less than satisfactory when used in a black powder gun. The point being that black powder and fouling are mostly water soluble and the chemical stuff might combine to create something even harder to clean out. The logic seemed to work in my muzzleloader pretty well so I didn't try to dream up anything new when I started shooting BPCR. I still use oil to treat the metal before I put it away though.

When cleaning my white powder guns, I use the usual solvents.

Bryan

Clark B · Post by **Clark B** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:06 pm

I don't use petro products simply because I have always found cleaning easier without them. Has nothing to do with accuracy. I have enough natural oil and lube material hanging around to not have to use my more expensive to replace CLP or Lubriplate on my BP guns. Back 27 years ago when I bought my first cheap C&B pistol, I used Crisco swiped from the kitchen as lube, being that my dad was against gun ownership there were no gun oils around to use, and he was never very mechanical minded so no automotive grease either.

And while I am the type that wishes they made cologne and perfume in Hoppe's fragrance, I will have to admit that Beewax and olive oil does smell better.

boge · Post by **boge** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:30 pm

Ballistol is derived from petroleum.

montana charlie · Post by **montana charlie** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:38 pm

boge wrote:Ballistol is derived from petroleum.

"One of its selling points is that it is not petro-chemical based, and uses biodegradable ingredients."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

CM

mdeland · Post by **mdeland** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:54 pm

I've tried most of the oils but for cleaning muzzle loader and BPCR I still use water and Hoppe's #9.
I like Hoppe's or Rig grease on the base pin and ratchet except when really cold as you almost can't roll it over then. I just run a patch of Hoppe's 9 down the barrel after water cleaning, drying and put em away. It protects them just as well as it did for my dad and grand dad.
Yeah, it evaporates but the film it leaves still protects the steel.
I have to admit though the best rust preventative I have found around salt water is Breakfree CLP and it still will lubricate and allow your firing pin to operate when it is really cold out which petroleum oils and WD-40 will not.
We used to have to strip guns of bolt oil when it got about 20 below if you want them to go bang reliably.
I still have a bunch of the Outers gun oil I use on a patch to wipe the exterior and lube pins etc.
Actually I have wiped a good many guns down with Hoppe's 9 and haven't noticed it eating the blue and they don't rust in my safe or shop.
I've been told that bear oil is very good lube in cold weather but have had no personal experience with it. MD

boge · Post by **boge** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:39 pm

About every two years we go thru this same Ballistol BS and we end up dragging a chemist on line to verify that Ballistol is a petroleum product as it is made from coal.

coalminer · Post by **coalminer** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:43 pm

ill not get into the petro chemical debate but when i first made the switch to bp i tried to use bullets that i had lubed with lee alox by just pan lubing with a bp lube over the lla .. bad idea

Kelley O. Roos · Post by **Kelley O. Roos** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:50 pm

The problem with shale oil is the cost to refine and the water required, there just isn't enough water.

Kelley O.

coalminer · Post by **coalminer** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:18 pm

having worked my entire life in the coal industry i do know that a average cost of coal to fuel oil be it diesel or jp is any where from $40-$50 per barrel of fuel produced based on a $18 per ton cost for coal and friends we havent seen $18 coal here for a long long long time the past 10 years localy we have seen a low price of $ 21 to a high of $138 per ton as far as shale oil the canadians have been producing a good portion of their domestic oil with shale oil and at reasonable costs .. if i remember correctly 4 years ago costs was running around $50 per barrel ............. and yes it takes a lot of water to produce it but all the water used is recycled continuosly

coalminer · Post by **coalminer** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:26 pm

yes sir you are right it was oil sands my bad