45-120-550 & 40-90 SS 3 1/4

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Sharps4570
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:59 pm
Location: Billings

45-120-550 & 40-90 SS 3 1/4

Post by Sharps4570 »

I posted the following yesterday on Shooter to Shooter.

"I'm confused.
In researching the 4090SS I am getting ALOT of conflicting information as to when and and by whom this cartridge was made. A number of sources (Shiloh, Cartridges Of The World 9th ED, and others) say that Sharps never listed this cartridge.
A great book "The Buffalo Harvest" by (and about) Frank H. Mayer has Sharps chambering their rifles for it as early as 1874-75. He calls it the 40/90-320 and goes on to mention that he switched to a heavier bullet making it then a 40/90-420. He goes to great length praising his straight case and badmouthing the bottleneck case. Incidently if you haven't read this book you are really missing something. And he is very clear in this book that he is talking about the Straight case not the Bottleneck. Mr Mayer tells you to the penny what he made each year on the plains and so much more in such detail that I find it hard to believe that he is mistaken as to what his Sharps was chambered for.

Did Sharps chamber on a customers request ?

Was this the 40/90 Ballard case and just commonly called the the Sharps Straight.
Anyone have experience with either the 40/90 SS or BN ?
Good points , bad points ? This will be a hunting rifle.
I'm not trying to be contrary here, I'm just trying to find out as much as I can before plunking down two grand for ANOTHER Shiloh Sharps.
Thanks"

After reading the 45-120-550 discussion , which (if I understand it correctly) supports the idea that Frank Mayer was NOT using the 3 1/4 case (ANY 3 1/4 case not being avaliable yet)
then what case was he putting 90 grains of powder into for his 40-90-420 (320) ?
Understand also that I missed the whole Frank Mayer debate way back when and am keeping an open mind. Hope nothin falls out !!
Someone clue me in : What is the majority opinion on "The Buffalo Harvest" truth or hooey ?
When in doubt, empty the magazine.
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JAGG
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Post by JAGG »

Sharpe 45/70 ! The long range shooting didn't come into its own until the herds were thinned out and became spooky to approach ! The experts used everything until they knew better as to what would work ! The bottle necks would stick in the chambers at times and powder fouled more just ahead of the chamber ! As time went by they switched to better cases and to longer range shooting stands ! When the first hahoos started shooting buffalo they used 44 rimfires at 50yds etc. and just kept on shooting ! It became a learning experience for those who stayed to the end ! JAGG
JAGG
Crash Landing
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Post by Crash Landing »

Sharps4570
I think you will find large doses of both “truth” and “hooey” in Frank Mayers writings but to suggest he deviated even slightly from historical accuracy on this Forum, is to invite the wrath of the Mayers devotees. As you state, he could not have used a Sharps with a 3 ¼ inch straight case in the years he says he did because they were just not available. Mayer’s writings are still a great read and capture the “feeling” of a long past era. As to the other matter, Sharps never did catalog any 3 ¼ inch cartridges. For a time, there were gunsmiths who would re-chamber Sharps, so there are indeed some 74 Sharps around with 3 ¼ inch chambers that are original to the period.
The Ballard 40-90 is a different cartridge than the Sharps and unless I’m mistaken, was 3 1/16 inches. Ballard also offered the same cartridge with thicker case walls as an “Everlasting” that was a 40-85. I used to have a Ballard Pacific in 40-90 (Bal.) that would shoot 2-3 MOA with the case nearly full of Pyrodex (CTG) dropped through a 30 inch tube, a card wad over the power and compressed about 0.15 inch, then a 3/8 inch thick lube wad of Tauac grease, followed by another card wad, and then seated a bore diameter paper patched bullet with only enough pressure to snug the bullet and wads firmly against the powder column. I also used to own and Shiloh 74 in 40-90 BN (2 5/8 inch case) that never did shoot worth a d_ _ m. I worked with it for years and finally sent it back to the factory and thanks to Kirk and company, it now has new a tube in 45-2.4 inch.
Bottom line – you can get some of the long cases to shoot but I wouldn’t try to use them for match shooting.
Caution. My response is anecdotal (my own experience), start to draw your own conclusions only after you have collected enough data to see patterns of like responses develop.
Randy W
MikeT
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Post by MikeT »

Sahrps4570,
I have read Mayers book and found it very interesting. I believe that a book like the "The Buffalo Harvest" which was written by a third party, as this one was, and who may or may not have had any experience shooting BP rifles and/or big game, could create a problem with the "accuracy" of the tale. Keep in mind that human nature being what it is, the teller of a tale usually has to add a little to a story "poetic license" so as to be impressive or remembered by the listener. Example, how many times have you been told that "He shot that big buck right through the heart at 300 yards"? No doubt he shot a big buck, maybe throught the lungs [near the heart] at a range over 200 yards; see what I mean? Therefore, anything in a book like "The Buffalo Harvest" is best taken as a tale recreating the "times" generally in accurate terms, but should not be taken as a scientific journal.
Now regarding your question about 40-90SS accuracy; the jury is still out, as nobody I know, as of today, has made one shoot. But you may be the motivated individual who will make a 40-90SS shoot and show the rest of us how to do it. Keep us informed.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
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Trigger Dr
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Post by Trigger Dr »

Regarding third party authors, do you find it strange that these "ghost writers" some times have excellent sights on their typewriters?
Trigger Dr.
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