35-30 Maynard

[Woody]

Doc,

That arms race is one that I don't care to chase. I totally agreed, the fundamentals are the most important parts of this game. Doing it with a vintage or modern version old single shot just adds to it. Then when you add, in no particular order, the likes of a Michael Rix, Jim Kidwell, Steve Rhoades, Dan Theodore, Doc Lay, etc., etc., etc., well we have found "nervana".

Woody

[Coltsmoke]

Now I find out there are rules about all these calibers, I have already ordered a Shiloh in .22 hornet. Dang it!!

[mdeland]

Well, soon as I decipher Dan's Chinese or is that Shakespeare, I may have a comment. One thing for sure it is definitely "deep winter" and I dearly love my little .35 " what ever you want to call it", thanks George ! MD

[CO]

I suppose when I posted that my grandson was shooting a 357 Max at the RBGC matches we started all this controversy. Everytime I would leave my house to go to a match Brandon wanted to go and I would try to explain that he couldn't shoot these rifles. He's 4'7" weighs 68 lbs 9 yrs old. I always left him with a disappointed look on his face, and as you fathers and grandfathers know that bothers you all day. I had a 357 (japanese) browning lo-wall that I had bought years ago thinking I might use the action someday. I started loading it with bp and 180 gr. pistol bullets and let Brandon start shooting that. I was surprised at how well it did so I reamed it out to 357 Max, cut the stock off, put on a lyman 17 front sight and a parts unknown rear. This rifle has a very light 24" factory barrel. What I'm getting at, we are not trying to hide anything or "cheat" in any way. This is simply all the rifle he can handle weight wise (off-hand) and recoil. Jim Kidwell and Doug Gazaway said he could shoot it at the monthly RBGC matches. Both have been a tremendous help and all the men that shoot the match have been great. Now, if this is 'cheating" or "not in the spirit of the game" to heck with you and the game. Thank you Dan T and Woody for all your advice, help and contributions CO

[powderburner]

yeah but Dan , do you have to pick it up at the pigs and throw it at the rans?

an interesting ctg for you weenie gun shooters , and a good call for newbies and youngsters , good job on reserecting it. my hat is off to you.

[Tasmanian Rebel]

Kurt, I don't know if they're legal or not. I don't think they would have had the titanium thingys back then so in my mind they would not/should not be. It's immaterial to me because like Woody I have no inclination to change my guns when they have come from the factory other than lightening the triggers a bit with the screws that come on the gun. If one wants to go to the race guns why not just go the HP route?
CO, keep Brandon involved! Hope to see you guys at RBGC in a couple of weeks.
Keith Lay

[powderburner]

twice it dropped my post , so once more .I want to commend CO for being a good grandpa and figuring out how to get a new shooter on the line ,
and an attaboy to the match directors who make a place on the line for new shooters even if their equipment isnt 100 % up to snuff ,, its what Makes the sport continue on
you sir are a good grandpa and a good person

[Kurt]

I think the rim fire silhouette would be a great shoot to get a youngster into. Be it the 25 to 100 meter discipline that shot off hand or the two hundred off sticks with a .22 single shot rifle.

Keep working with your Grandson, and my hat is off to you for cutting off the stock so it fits him. done it my self.

Kurt

[shovel80]

I know it's a little off post, but I've got a .38-50 Ballard Everlasting case sitting in front of me with a 45-70 and it is almost as tall as the .45....Seems like it could have been a good round for Sillhouette!?

Terry

[Don McDowell]

I suppose when I posted that my grandson was shooting a 357 Max at the RBGC matches we started all this controversy. Everytime I would leave my house to go to a match Brandon wanted to go and I would try to explain that he couldn't shoot these rifles. He's 4'7" weighs 68 lbs 9 yrs old. I always left him with a disappointed look on his face, and as you fathers and grandfathers know that bothers you all day. I had a 357 (japanese) browning lo-wall that I had bought years ago thinking I might use the action someday. I started loading it with bp and 180 gr. pistol bullets and let Brandon start shooting that. I was surprised at how well it did so I reamed it out to 357 Max, cut the stock off, put on a lyman 17 front sight and a parts unknown rear. This rifle has a very light 24" factory barrel. What I'm getting at, we are not trying to hide anything or "cheat" in any way. This is simply all the rifle he can handle weight wise (off-hand) and recoil. Jim Kidwell and Doug Gazaway said he could shoot it at the monthly RBGC matches. Both have been a tremendous help and all the men that shoot the match have been great. Now, if this is 'cheating" or "not in the spirit of the game" to heck with you and the game. Thank you Dan T and Woody for all your advice, help and contributions CO

Co let's be clear.
1. Your efforts to get your grandson off the couch away from the "thumb games" and into the shooting sports is to be commended. It was a great thing to do.
2. That Kidwell and Gazaway went along with him shooting in your monthly matches is also a great thing.
3. Part of your responsibility in bringing that young fella into the fold, aside from safe gun handling, is also to familiarize you and him with the rules of the game. So that he knows yes he can do it at home, but no he probably can't shoot NRA sillouette competition elsewhere with that rifle and unless it's declared a different cartridge it's not eligible for score at NRA sanctioned events.
4. While it might be "technically" allowable to use the 357 Remington Maximum cartridge if the barrel is marked and stamped as something else, it is still not totally incompliance with the rules of the NRA sanctioned events.
5 I am 100% behind a change in the rules that would especially make allowances for junior shooters to shoot rifles such as the "handi rifle"( which is actually has as much similarity to the Stevens Tipup rifle as the 357 max does to the 38 ballard extra long),which would specifically and directly encourage more young shooters to come into the sanctioned tournament shoots.

6. For ADULTS to scheme and plot and stretch to make things happen for them that are more "gamer" related and moving in a direction to skirt the rules of the game, I find totally and utterly disgusting.

[Jim Watson]

Where do you draw the line on gaming?

Is it ok for me to load a .40-65 case with a bullet more than half again as heavy as Winchester used?
Is it ok to load .405 (Hornady) WCF with cast bullets and call it a .40-72?
If so, I see no grounds to ban the .357 Maynard/Maximum.

[beltfed]

Coltsmoke,
That "22 HOrnet" you ordered?
Its really a 22WCF- an original BP round.( I even have an old Ideal Tong tool "in the orig box" marked 22WCF, which has been used to load
modern "22 Hornets"
You should have Shiloh mark it accordingly a 22 WCF. One of the attendees to the forum has in the past shot the 22 WCF with BP extensively.
His forum name was XX-Grandpa. Gee I wonder what happened to him. Haven't seen him post for a long time.
beltfed/arnie

Guys, don't forget those modern Fast Twist barrels that were not in use (much?) in the1880s , and SS

[Don McDowell]

If you're calling the chambering on the rifle the 40-65 winchester, then to stay in the bounds of the rule, no it's not alright to load the heavy bullets.
We've had that very conversation about the 405, and that's where the double standards the "pretty people" seem to like to employ jump in. Apparently it's ok for the pretty people to do it, but it's an absolute flame fest if someone who's not an official pretty people dues paying member suggest the use of the 405 loaded with blackpowder for another non pretty people members kids for a "cheap" rifle to get started on.... The 405 is nothing more than the 40-72 with a thicker rim, and lighter bullet, the 40-72 was Winchesters way of saying 40-70 sst, and getting rid of the paper patch bullet so it'ld cycle thru the 95 action with no busted bullets..BUT it's very well apparent not legal to use for NRA competitions....
So now we're renaming the 357 max with a bullet and twist in which no 35 caliber case nor barreled action of a readily available rifle or ammuntion from the time period, and it's supposedly good for full competition....
So if you don't draw the line, then how long till we pitch the no smokeless powder, and then, well, you know Borchardt actually had a big hand in designing the Lee/Enfield, and by golly it was around before the stevens 44 action, and the martini is a direct decendant of the peabody........

[gws]

So Don, what I'm hearing you say is everyone who doesn't shoot a 45-70 or larger using the 500 grain round nose government bullet or a 550 grain cupped base paper patch bullet in arbitrarily sized bores with 1:22 twist are gamers. I suppose we should be pissing down our barrels between relays to cool and clean them but I would suggest that could expose one's shortcomings in a very public fashion. Where do you draw the line? Is your way the only way? Are none of the cartridges that were available before 1896 acceptable to you other than the aforementioned 45's? I have found it interesting for years that every time someone suggests resurrecting an old caliber and invests the time and money in reamers and barrels, brass and bullet moulds to see how it works the 45 caliber contingent comes out of the woodwork like cockroaches. I very vividly remember the fight over the 35-55 Maynard where a very vocal opponent harangued the NRA so forcefully that even though an original rifle was available and ammo developed fit the rifle perfectly and a letter from the NRA existed okaying the round years earlier were available for inspection they disqualified the round so the guy would shut the f*** up and go away. In his written campaign against the cartridge he even tried to ban any cartridge smaller than 40 caliber for silhouette. Funny thing is since those days I've not seen him at many silhouette matches in this part of the world. Where would all the older shooters that cannot tolerate the heavy recoil be if that had happened, what about the younger shooters or women that shoot because they can handle a 38-50 but not a 45-xx? We can all get our "panties in a bunch" and let silhouette and target rifle die out with the greybeards by forcing caliber limitations or we can grow the sport by adding the capability to keep people of all ages shooting. I may just be a country boy and not understand the nuances that drive your aversion to embrace all the potential cartridges that could be used. One thing for sure the rifle makers would be just about out of business if all they could make is a 45-70. Once you had one then you wouldn't need another.

I would be so bold and suggest you have a 35-40 built, develop a load for it and shoot it for a season. You might find out that bigger is not always better and if you don't like it I guarantee you could sell it.

George Springer

[mdeland]

Wonder if I could get that shorter bullet to make the turn into my Cadet?