35-30 Maynard

[gws]

Mike, I've not made it to the range yet and looks like Friday is the day this week that will work for me. After that I will need to cast some more bullets. I'll put some samples in the mail when I get the new batch cast. Continued good luck with the Martini.

Dan, the not so subtle hand on the back and whispers in the ear of others was obvious to anyone that has experienced the "use others to do you dirty work" methods of a transplant to East Texas with a telephone. He used to try that with me on the old Shooters.com site when topics appeared with which he disagreed. Fortunately the behavior was obvious to the most casual observer.

I think the reamer design is excellent and I would be willing to have my 38 Ballard XL set back and re-chambered, let me know when its completed. If you want to share the cost of the reamer grind let me know via email. In the mean time I will continue load development and work to reclaim shooting basics which Doc so rightly indicated are paramount to good shooting. I received an F in Shooting 2011 due to other commitments and I am determined to do better this year. While I've never had any interest in BPTR I might have to make a match or two with the 38XL to see how it will do.

George

[Don McDowell]

So Don, what I'm hearing you say is everyone who doesn't shoot a 45-70 or larger using the 500 grain round nose government bullet or a 550 grain cupped base paper patch bullet in arbitrarily sized bores with 1:22 twist are gamers. I suppose we should be pissing down our barrels between relays to cool and clean them but I would suggest that could expose one's shortcomings in a very public fashion. Where do you draw the line? Is your way the only way? Are none of the cartridges that were available before 1896 acceptable to you other than the aforementioned 45's? I have found it interesting for years that every time someone suggests resurrecting an old caliber and invests the time and money in reamers and barrels, brass and bullet moulds to see how it works the 45 caliber contingent comes out of the woodwork like cockroaches. I very vividly remember the fight over the 35-55 Maynard where a very vocal opponent harangued the NRA so forcefully that even though an original rifle was available and ammo developed fit the rifle perfectly and a letter from the NRA existed okaying the round years earlier were available for inspection they disqualified the round so the guy would shut the f*** up and go away. In his written campaign against the cartridge he even tried to ban any cartridge smaller than 40 caliber for silhouette. Funny thing is since those days I've not seen him at many silhouette matches in this part of the world. Where would all the older shooters that cannot tolerate the heavy recoil be if that had happened, what about the younger shooters or women that shoot because they can handle a 38-50 but not a 45-xx? We can all get our "panties in a bunch" and let silhouette and target rifle die out with the greybeards by forcing caliber limitations or we can grow the sport by adding the capability to keep people of all ages shooting. I may just be a country boy and not understand the nuances that drive your aversion to embrace all the potential cartridges that could be used. One thing for sure the rifle makers would be just about out of business if all they could make is a 45-70. Once you had one then you wouldn't need another.

I would be so bold and suggest you have a 35-40 built, develop a load for it and shoot it for a season. You might find out that bigger is not always better and if you don't like it I guarantee you could sell it.

George Springer

No George you're just being friggin ignorant now. No 45-70 is not the only way to go. Why don't YOU do something that is in line with a cartridge well known of the times like a 32-40?
No you're just plain stupid if you think I'm saying that someone that can't handle the recoil of a 45-70 can't be allowed to shoot. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 38-50 , they are well documented.
There is however NO evidence of a 35 caliber cartridge made by anybody anywhere at any time firing a 300 gr bullet.
YOU want to game the system with a 35 rem max calling it a 38 ballard extra long, fine, load it with the same 160 gr bullet as it was manufactured with and go have a good time.
Glad to hear if you have one 45-70 you don't need another...... Now all I have to do is figure out then how in the hell did I end up with 4 of the damn things,,,,, ALL sharps......
I take the position that you GAMERS who aren't able or satisfied to let your own ability carry the day, try to skirt around the edges of the rules, and "cheat" as it were, are doing more damage to the "sport" than the folks that are perfectly willing to take a look at the rules and decide to play the game as it was agreed upon.
As I said there sure could be and probably needs to be an allowance in the rules for rifles and cartridges such as what CO did for his grandson , so that more kids can get involved. But for a full grown man to game the system for his own advantage is just sickening, and that includes the "pretty people" that get their fingers pinched in the cookie jar and then start running around casting aspertion on everybody else , and not willing to stand up take the heat they brought on themselves, right Theodore?

[Brent]

Weather must have finally gotten colder out there in eastern Wyoming lately.

[Tasmanian Rebel]

Don, I only "know" you as a helluva nice fellow from the posts you make on this board. You've undergone a change the last couple of days. Maybe you need to step back, take a breath, and discover where the etiology of your venom is coming from. This ain't you man!
Keith Lay

[Don McDowell]

Keith Venom not from me.
Now if you want to talk about it pm me your phone # and I'll call on my dime.

[Don McDowell]

Now lets see all the horrified folks worried about "venom" Cuz Mrs. Theodores lil boy just done dumped a butt load of it.

We are having fun playing within the rules.

Well Theodore if you're "playing" with the rules, I'm hard up to see the difference between that and bending, and when you start bending you're cheating, if your cheating your lying, if you're lying to gain advantage you're also a thief. IMHO.

I simply asked questions about your 357 max makeover, and to this minute you have not answered a damn one of them. That's hiding, hiding is avoidance, avoidance is .... Well let's just leave it there.

Me thinks Don has been getting multiple ear-fulls of Bagwell's vile

Nope , Bill and I talk about alot of things, mostly to do with the actual shooting of this or that cartridge. I'm not a lemming so even if he did mention something about you, It probably would be in a better light than the opinion I formed about you all on my own over the past few years.And I damn sure only got into this thread when my curiosity got peaked, and you in classic fashion duck dodge, and devert away from the simple questions I asked in the first place.
Now go on, go lie, cheat steal, do what ever you can do to step past the rules and get the big wins,,,,,, doing it that way is sure as hell something to be proud of...

[Don McDowell]

If you're bending the rules you're cheating, if your cheating your lieing as when you play the game you agree to the rules, cheating says you don't agree to the rules, if you gain by that lying/cheatin your stealing a position away from someone else.
Still haven't answered any of the questions I asked along time ago....but we got a bunch more diversional bullspit....

[Woody]

What just happened here?
Would somebody care to explain without the mudslinging?
Woody

[Brent]

What just happened here?
Would somebody care to explain without the mudslinging?
Woody

Don lost his last marble....

[gws]

Hmmm, I come home from work only to find that I am:

1. friggin ignorant
2. no, just plain stupid
3. a gamer which implies, according to some posts today that I am a cheat, a liar and a thief

Bold talk from behind the keyboard and an interesting turn of events I would say. I'm still unclear how we got from agreeing to use the 38 Ballard XL nomenclature as opposed to 35-30 Maynard to the vitriol and personal attacks over the course of today. Wow Don, did you wake up a democrat this morning?

Best Regards,

George Springer

[mdeland]

Woody, egos and hurt feelings mixing it up ! Were all subject to them from time to time.

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

For a passive guy like me, this thread is painful to read.


DB

[RealMikeT]

Those are quite impressive cartridges that have been posted.
BUT, there is something missing in that bullet design. Those poor
bullets is neck-ed! Where is the paper?

Seriously, if my goal was a soft shooting cartridge for a lady or
a youngster, I would go with a PP bullet. You will loose a little
MV with PP as opposed to GG, but the PP bullets start so easily down the
barrel that the recoil is actually reduced. Axe me how I knows!

I hope I am not high-jack'n this thread but I was once thinking about
the 38 XL and gave it up cause the rim size is too small for my
clumsy fingers to deal with. So I started looking at the 38-45 Stevens.

The 38-45 Stevens can be formed from 303 or 30-40 Krag brass about 1 3/4" long.
The case capacity is only slightly larger than the 38 XL's; 36.8 grains of water compared
to 41.07 grains of water in the 38-45. The real beauty of this cartridge is the barrel
diameter originally was 0.363", which falls right in between the current .357 and .375 barrels
that are available today. Take about mischief making.

DanT I hope this does not cause you a sleepless night.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I noticed this banter once today while freezing my behind off starting a bunch of down screws, when I had some internet service and was in the truck warming up. 35-30 Maynard and then the 38 Ballard Xtra Long, Some confusion for certain. I am home now and thawed out some so thought I lend my thoughts.

I say long live the 38 Ballard Extra Long Silhouette round. The Ballard has tons more class. Although the Maynard was a bona fide Buffalo rifle according to some accounts. Though it is well known that the Ballard in several guises, including the ever soo Rare Big Montana in 45-2-7/8ths was used to kill bufflao. Not that has anything to do with Silhouette though some seem to have buffalo Rifle Mentality.

Don,

Noticed you mentioned that heavy bullet wts were a no-no in the 40-65. I have seen your reference to that before, and I am somewhat confused on that subject. Could you please direct me to the page in your NRA Silhouette Rule book as to a ruling on bullet weights? Nor it seems, does my BPCR Target Rifle Rule book, My Rule books seems to have that page missing. then some tanget about allowing Handi-rifles? Geez now there is a rule breaking rifle or are we planing on a total rewrite of the NRA Silhouette rule book, Any person that has shot a silhouette match, knows what a pain in the butt shooting prone would be and safety issues with the muzzle trying to run this rifle on a crowded silhouette line.

If a 400+ Grain bullet in a 40 is gamesmanship, then quite a few folks that have won in Silhouette and Long range in the past few years, would be in violation of the rules and would have to surrender their ill gotten awards.

I dont think Bill aka the Rdnck has issues over bullet weights of over 400 in a 40, or it is breaking the rules, after all Mrs Sidra won a Woman's National Championship, in NRA Long Range, with such a bullet.

So Don are you saying Sidra Bagwell Cheated?

Was just wanting to know if that was what you trying to get at?

This is a modern game, Silhouette, Rules the for it have been adapted, for Side or center hung hammer BPCR rifles of a certain era. Varrious cartridges from that Era have been allowed, Several special cartridges were also allowed and ruled legal for the game that had no basis except they made it easier for folks to get into the game. Several come to mind the 40-70 Gvt, very similar to the 40-50 Sharps Bottleneck, the 40-65 Ron Long, Folks did not have to trim the brass back to 2.1. The 40-70 Crossno, easy to form.

The 357 Maxim Case is so close to the 38 Ballard Xtra long that it is not even funny. Using it as a basic case is no different then folks using 405 or 30-40 Kraig Brass to make their 40-70 Sharps Straight cases or in my own case my 38-50 cases.

In my opinion, the case no mater the head stamp, used to make a 38 Ballard Xtra long which was for certain a Single Shot Cartridge of the Era, would be allowed under the current NRA Rules. The 35 maynard thing is a bit murky, fender washer case heads and then the change in 1882, I can see where this would cause some clouds to be cast over it.

My own self, these days I shoot a 38-50 Rem-Hepburn round, due it's high level of accuracy, Lessened Recoil which in a fast paced game such as Silhouette makes a huge difference. Watching the animals fall over though the sights or the scope is a real kick it's FUN thats what this game is suposed to be all about. I have had some small success with my 38-50 this past year, shooting against big old 45's in the NRC Medal Match Traditional Class at Cody, also at Big Whiskey Labor day weekend, I tied Steve Brooks, many time National Silhouette Champion for the #1 spot the first day of the Weekend match, and Finished 3rd overall for the Weekend. Coming in behind Steve Brooks and Steve Rhoades. Two Silhouette Shooters who I have an imense amout of Respect for and Mr Rhoades who is one of my closest Friends. Frankly it don't get much better then that.

Lastly barrel twists and the like and heavy bullets, anyone with 2 thimbles of Shit for brains, knows that the NRC and Slug Gun shooters, Such as Warner and Perry, Carlos Goove, John Chapman, and a host of others where playing with Fast twists and heavy bullets, in calibers such as the 38 and 40's and 42's. Carlos Goove shot a 42 caliber 1-13.5 twist Slug gun in 1882 at a Long Range match in Denver CO, for $5000 purse. The rifle exists to this day. Pope played with a 33-40 and Swore by it. This all went on in the ERA we are clinging too for a basis of our game. And thats all it is guys a Game we play.

Every 14 days I go to the local Cancer Center, Sit in a chair, have them plug a 1 inch long needle with a cup on it into a port in my chest, Stare Death in the face and wait for 2 hours afterwords to make sure the stuff they pumped into me does not give me a reaction and Kill me, So I look at things a bit different.

You Guys are acting like a bunch of Pissy faced little rotten kids, worrying if the guy is breaking the rules with a new BP Cartridge, All I got to say is GROW THE Hell Up. It would seem you do not have entirely enough shit in your own lives to worry about.

KW
The Lunger

PS I have some small Idea what it takes to get something new introduced into NRA Shooting Sports and BPCR. When I brought it up on the Shiloh Forum, folks that never have shot the game where the only ones that Did not like the idea of Tollofson Class. Some of then did not even have the faintest Idea of how current Creedmoor is shot or the rules, Funny deal real funny. However I did my homework submited the data and information along with 60 plus co-signers of my letter and it is now a bona-fide Class in NRA BP Target Rifle.

[John Bly]

That's all folks! Thanks, Kenny