Annealed vs Not Annealed!

Omaha Poke · Post by **Omaha Poke** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:00 pm

On our monthly Sat match at Machias this past weekend, I tried a little experiment. I was shooting a .45-90 that I hadn't shot out past 200 yds, and that the brass was not fire formed for.

30 cases were annealed, and 30 cases were not annealed. Exact same load, same bullet compression, etc. I realize this is not in any way any kind of definative test, and I wasn't even able to fire off all 60 rounds. I just wanted to see for my self what if anything that annealing would do for me.

When full length sizing both types of cases the annealed started into the sizing die easier, but after the first inch, they were no easier to size than the not-annealed cases.

On firing these first time shot cases, the not-annealed cases had a moderate amount of blow back of gases, not too bad, but very noticeable. On the other hand the annealed cases had NO gas blow back, and looked the same coming out of the chamber that they did going in!!

Plus # 1 for annealing!

Since I hadn't shot this rifle at 500 yds, I estimated that I would have to come up about 50 or more minutes of elevation to get on paper. That proved to be right, and was in the 7 ring with the first shot, and with four more sighters went for record. This was with the not-annealed case loads.

I shot a dismal 76 out of 100 on my first string.

After coming back from the pits, it was my turn again, and I opted for the annealed case loads. I shot a 93 out of 100. I wish I could have gone on shooting, but it was my turn to spot, and the rifle again got cold, and I got even colder. My next 10 shot string I also shot the annealed cases since they had done so well last string. My first sighting shot was an X, and I said that is enough practice and complemented my spotter Erich for what a fine job he was doing, and went for record. Shot an 81 out of 100

I don't know exactly why the last string was not as good as the second, other than we had been out in that extreme cold all day, and I couldn't feel my fingers. I am pretty sure though that annealing is going to be the way I will go (at least with Starline .45-90 brass) from now on with new cases.

Like I said, this wasn't any Yale or Harvard study, but to me it gives an indicator for annealing. At least annealing new brass. Fire Away guys,

Randy

ironramrod · Post by **ironramrod** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:23 pm

Omaha,

Actually from the science standpoint that is a rather good experiment you conducted. You had a fairly nice experimental design. I assume you used identical components and loading procedures. That is what scientific evaluation is all about; change one part of the methods at a time and evaluate the results. You're well on your way to becoming a genuine rifle scientist (aka rifle crank).

Nicely done; my compliments.

Regards,

JAGG · Post by **JAGG** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:15 pm

O P ! If you size the cases or only neck size you will have neck tension that will hold the bullet longer for a better powder burn and pressure ! When i anneal my cases i then neck size and expand 3 times to get all cases work hardened some and all on an even start ! Some here load without any neck tension and claim good results ! I never was able to just slip fit bullets and get good accuracy ! Either you have very hard brass cases or you have low pressure in your load ! JAGG

Omaha Poke · Post by **Omaha Poke** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:47 pm

JAGG, I don't think you read the post! Other than annealing, I full length sized, deburred, chamfered, primer pocket uniformed, flash hole deburred, etc, etc, before annealing. I didn't just grab some cases and say I will shoot these annealed, and these not annealed

While it wasn't much of a trial run, it was with a little thought

Randy

Omaha Poke · Post by **Omaha Poke** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:52 pm

Ironramrod, Thanks

I am going to do a test on Weds at 200 yds with the same components all prepared the same way except for the annealing. Again 30 rounds each, and see how it works. This is a big part of the fun in developing a load for BP. Some things work, and some don't.

Randy

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:11 pm

Omaha Poke,

Give no never mind to JAGG, you see he doesn't get into the library much or out into the world.

He just got his social check so now has money to buy computer time at the libary

I guess it's better to buy computer time then wine and sleeping in a box, in an alley

On second thought he may be sleeping in a box in an alley or he just got out of jail

because he hasn't been around for a while

Keep up the work Omaha Poke

Kelley O.

Merritt · Post by **Merritt** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:52 pm

I shoot both the 40 25/8 and the 45-100. Both require neck annealing to
keep the chambers clean. In the 45-100 I use the Starline brass, the stuff is tough and I believe is only annealed at the factory for smokless powder.

Did you anneal just the neck area in your 45-90 or the whole case?

I've heard that all brass starts out as Reminton billets and that how those billets are drawn and annealed is the major difference between the brass
that is available to us.

Merritt

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:54 pm

Randy,
I read your whole post, sounded fine to me. Maybe full length sizing doesn't count when it comes to neck tension. Go figure.

you know if this slip fit bullets and no neck tension doesn't or cant work because of low pressure. Some body needs to jump in there AJAX time machine and go tell all of those old target shooters back around the turn of the century. That there loads won't work at all sense they are "Breach Seating" there bullets and thus could not have had any neck tension. All of those target shooting records, some that still stand today must be bogus. because we all know "NOW" the real truth as told by our old friend JAGG.

Gunny

JAGG · Post by **JAGG** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:31 pm

KO ! It's 12:20 am what library do you go to ? Mine are free computer time ! Which i had a card board box been living with a tree squirrel ! Gunny you went from slip fit loose case to tight fit breach seating , care to try muzzleloading bullets too ! Poke you had Blow back with case not annealed and no blow back with annealed cases who cares about the rest of the stuff you did to all of the cases it is case hardness you are talking about ! Poking is poking where ever you you go poking ! I missed you guys ever since i had that wort removed !

! JAGG