45-110 load delema

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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leadflinger
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45-110 load delema

Post by leadflinger »

I recently purchased a shiloh in 45-110 and have been trying differant loads. I have Bell brass trimmed to 2.875 and am having problems when trying to load the lyman #457125 520gr. bullet. I can not chamber the round, it touches the lands of the rifleing.( it is short of going in by .25") I even tried seating the bullet past the top seating band. Has any body had this problem and if so would you help? Another question I have is, I read were some of you are loading up to 108 gr. of powder. I have to compress 95 gr Fg (goex) .35 to get this bullet to fit. I am using a .030 wad and if i compress any more the case seems to expand and then it won't camber. I am compressing using a lee compression die. So how much can you compress this stuff and is there a better way, so the case does not swell? Thanks
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powderburner
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Post by powderburner »

You dont say but are you using a drop tube before compressing? if not you need to . pour it slowly and then compress the .35 compression should be close.check out the nose size on your bullet as well it may be casting oversize.I just got some Buffalo arms streched 348 brass and they hold 99 gn of 2f poured out of the can and scraped off .you can use this as a comparison for volume in your cases it is not a recommended load, your cases may be thicker and may not hold as much to begin with .I do not have a problem with the BA cases and 106 gns of 1f
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leadflinger
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Post by leadflinger »

Yes I do use a 30" drop tube and pour slowly.
David Kunkel
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Post by David Kunkel »

Leadfinger,
The most I have been able to load into the Bell brass is 92 gr. ffg goex behind an .060 wad and a 530 gr. postel shaped bullet. To do this I have to use a drop tube that is 30" tall and pour very slowly then compress about 3/16". any more powder and my brass also expands.

I am fairly new at this sport also, but these loads are providing good accuracy for myself and a freind who also is shooting a shilo 45-110

Dave
Kenny Wasserburger
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Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Leadflinger,

First lets take it a step at a time.

#1 Size a case FL see if it fits your rifle chamber.

#2 Drop in your powder charge Compress that ammout you have been WITH OUT A WAD. Then set the wad on top of the powder. See if it will still chamber in your rifle. It may not due to the belling of the case. Some times the wad will swell case and cause problems.

#3 Seat your bullet.

Check the size of the neck of your loaded round, with Dial Calipers. If its over .481 you will have chamber problems and there in lies your problem.

#4 there is a slight possibility that you are bumping up the bullet nose when seating it into the case also. Check the size of your bullet nose before seating it into the case then again after seating the bullet. This again is another area i have see folks have troubles>>> including me along time ago!

Lastly this sounds sort of dumb but did you remove the bell enough to let the rounds chamber?? You may wish to remove the decaping stem from your sizing die and back it out 4 full turns and run a loaded round in it. I dont recomend this but it might be that you seating die is not adjusted right to remove the bell. I use the sizing die as mentioned above to remove the bell as i have seveal different bullets i use and with my Micrometer seating dies i dont adjust the die to remove the bell as i just adjust the seating stem for the different bullets.

I hope this helps some if you still have problems let me know.

We will get you though it!

Kenny Wasserburger
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Lead Pot

Post by Lead Pot »

When I first got my .40-70 I had a chambering problem,I had 200 loaded up before I got my rifle and wanted to shoot it but a lot of the rounds would not chamber.I found my problem was not with the bullet or case length,but in the case rim did not fit.I turned the .30-40 case rimes down a little,and that solved my problems.

Kurt
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Post by Smokin »

leadflinger,

One more simple thing to check can be done by inserting the bullet into the chamber, making sure it bottoms out well, and measuring the distance from the base of the bullet to the breech end of the barrel. The depth gauge on your dial caliper is perfect for the job. Add this number to the bullet length and this sum is the maximum overall length of your loaded round--for that particular bullet. Anything longer than this will require the round to be forced into the chamber.

This, plus the other things that have been recommended, should give you a prettty good idea of what is going on. I have had a somewhat similar problem with an off the shelf mould, but this one had an over-sized bore riding nose and the nose of the bullet could not be inserted into the muzzle of the rifle and prevented clean chambering. Good luck, Smokin
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Kirk
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Post by Kirk »

Hey Leadfinger, check that neck wall thickness, Bell has a bad rap for this every now and again, you don't want it over .011" thick, Max. Thanks Kirk
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Maj Bob Lee
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Post by Maj Bob Lee »

Kirk is right about some of the Bell brass. I had the same problem with my 45-110 that I got in October using Bell. The cases were just a tad too thick. Solved it by outside "neck" turning the cases and then fire forming. Hope this helps.

Alan
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Bonanza Driver
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Post by Bonanza Driver »

Leadflinger:

I initially noticed the same problem with my Quigley in 45-110. I found I actually had two problems. The first was that I had trimmed the (Norma) brass to length before I Full-Length sized it ….. BIG mistake. I use Redding dies and the case length ‘grows’ when sized. I now FL size AND THEN trim to 2.874” and have no case length problems.

However, your comment about not being able to chamber by .25” makes me think that you are running into the second problem I experienced – a bulging case caused by aggressive powder compression. I use 108.5g of Goex Fg (one f), which just fills the case level with the top – if I pour SLOWLY. I used to install a .060 poly wad and then compress to obtain an OAL of 3.658 after seating the Lyman 457132. This much compression caused the brass to bulge slightly and just like you have seen, the finished cartridge would not seat by about .25”. I cured this by doing just as Kenny suggested to you, removing the decapping stem from the sizing die and resizing the completed round. This fixed the problem completely. Kenny suggested that I might experience less case swelling if I try compressing the powder BEFORE installing the wad. I have not done so yet but intend to next time I load. In my experience, if you pay attention to what Kenny & Rdnck have to say, you’ll not go far wrong. If you do make a bonehead mistake like I did in trimming the cases before FL sizing, they’ll get you close enough that you can figure out how to get back on the right road, yourself. These two fellas won’t leave you out in the woods.

By the way, I have tried drop tubing but it does not seem to make any difference at all on the height of the powder column when using Fg; maybe because it is so coarse, maybe because I am screwing up somehow. Kenny & Rdnck are my long-distance mentors and if you fellas are listening, I would appreciate your thoughts & experiences drop tubing GOEX Fg in your 45-110s.

All the Best,
Steve
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Post by stillwater »

What I do when I am working with a new bullet (on my fourth one so far) is to hand seat the bullet into an empty brass just far enough so that it will stay in. Then I chamber the round by slowly pushing in the case by hand until it is all the way in. This pushes the bullet into the case. I then remove the case and measure the OAL. Since I use my 45-110 for hunting, I then subtratct .002 and work backwards from there as to how much powder/ compression/wad is required.

This may sound like the tail wagging the dog, but seems to work for me. From here I then experiment with different charges etc....
Kenny Wasserburger
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Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Bonanza Driver,

With heavier cases some times it is best to use a bit less powder. I like the BA streched 348 cases as they will hold the 108.5 gr load that I use.

However in my Norma cases 107grs is about all I can stuff in them. I pour very slowly and this 107 gr load does not fill the case plumb full. That will all depend of course on the lot of powder one is using also.

My drop tube is about 30 inches long and I use a very slow 10-15 second pour for the load.

The faster the pour the higher the load will stack in the case.

Hope that helps some.

Kenny Wasserburger
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JAGG
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Post by JAGG »

What is the nose diameter of the bullet ? Is that what is stopping your round from chambering ? Or is it case swelling from to much compression ? Or is the bullet body to large in diameter in neck area of chamber ? JAGG
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leadflinger
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Post by leadflinger »

I have tried a resized case with the powder compressed and a wad seated and the brass will chamber. When I seat the bullet it will not, and I can see the rifleing marks on the bullet. The nose of the bullet is.450 after loading . The neck of the loaded round is right at .481. I tried to run the loaded case through the sizing die (with de-capping pin removed) but I can pull the bullet out with my fingers. I have got it to were I can chamber the round but I have to really push it hard with my thumb and then it is a little tight closing the chamber. Is this normal? I will keep trying the things you all have told me and Iam sure I will get it. I am going to try a diffrent case (brand) and see if it helps. When I load the Lyman 457193 420gr bullet I have no problem. But most of the things I read here suggest the 520 gr. bullet should be more accurate, so I would like to try them. I am most intrested in a load that I can use for hunting but with cold fingers or in a hurry I dont want to have to fight to get the round in the chamber. Thanks for all of your help,I love this gun!
Bonanza Driver
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Post by Bonanza Driver »

Kenny:

Thanks for the reply. Rdnck called me last night and we went over the drop tube issue, too. Turns out he uses a 24" 3/8 drop tube similar to what I have tried and he says it works for him but that sometimes the heavier-grained 1f we use clumps up and he has to flick it with his finger. I had exactly the same thing happen and figured that I was doing something wrong, so I'll go back and try it again - this time with my flicker at the ready :wink:

Rdnck says that when he uses a drop tube he does, indeed achieve a lower powder column - even with 1f. Sounds like you do, too so I'll get to work on my drop tube technique.

All the Best,
Steve
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