Ian when using the baco wipers in my PP rifles I've generally needed to push two wipers through each shot to keep the bore perfectly clean and consistent. I'll have to try the other setup you've been using.
Chris.
BACO bore wipes
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desert deuce
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Re: BACO bore wipes
Ian, I put the MPro-7 in an empty Vienna Sausage can and quickly dip the felts on the spike into the solution.
Yesterday, out of curiosity, I went to the range with some silhouette loads and the BACO bore wipes so treated with the MPro-7.
102F and 17% humidity in the shade. Shoot, load, wipe, shoot load wipe. Two sets of 17 shots in cadence as in a silhouette match.
Barrel was so hot I could not pick the rifle up by the barrel after shot 34, no cleaning between rounds.
Just waited long enough to repaint the target for the second 17.
Just pushed the bore wipe through with no patch for the second 17 shots.
No denigration of accuracy noted and no build up of bore fouling after 34 shots.
Yesterday, out of curiosity, I went to the range with some silhouette loads and the BACO bore wipes so treated with the MPro-7.
102F and 17% humidity in the shade. Shoot, load, wipe, shoot load wipe. Two sets of 17 shots in cadence as in a silhouette match.
Barrel was so hot I could not pick the rifle up by the barrel after shot 34, no cleaning between rounds.
Just waited long enough to repaint the target for the second 17.
Just pushed the bore wipe through with no patch for the second 17 shots.
No denigration of accuracy noted and no build up of bore fouling after 34 shots.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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ian45662
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Re: BACO bore wipes
I will try your method of wetting the felts. I had them pretty well soaked through.
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desert deuce
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Re: BACO bore wipes
Ian, that is the way I started out by soaking. Got to where solution was everywhere and on everything.
The acid test for accuracy will be on paper at 600 yards without the damp cotton patch chaser. That will have to wait until day time high temperatures don't get past the 80's into the 90's so the target pullers will come to the range.
I was also using some of the new SPG Tropical Bullet Lube for the first time at Dave Gullo's recommendation. So far, so good but 102F and 17% humidity is more like spring here than summer.
The acid test for accuracy will be on paper at 600 yards without the damp cotton patch chaser. That will have to wait until day time high temperatures don't get past the 80's into the 90's so the target pullers will come to the range.
I was also using some of the new SPG Tropical Bullet Lube for the first time at Dave Gullo's recommendation. So far, so good but 102F and 17% humidity is more like spring here than summer.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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ian45662
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Re: BACO bore wipes
Are you using that lube with paper patch?
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desert deuce
- Posts: 3863
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Re: BACO bore wipes
No, Ian, for match shooting I do not use paper patch. Grease groove exclusively.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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ian45662
- Posts: 727
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Re: BACO bore wipes
Paper patch is all I shoot except at chickens for now. . If I were going to shoot just greasers then I would go with the BACO wipers for sure. For paper patch I can’t get them to keep up with the gophers. I can fire 17 rounds in a 10 round string and still hit 10 turkeys with time to spare when using the gophers. 2 years ago I started playing with the BACO wipers and I have not been able to match the efficiency with them that I have with the BFD Gophers..... With paper patch anyways. Greasers I think this are the bees knees 
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desert deuce
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Re: BACO bore wipes
Ian, I recall making the transition from blow tubing to wiping with fluid and patch for silhouette and target. I don't know where my blow tubes are now and that is as much a function of the conditions of where I shoot most of the time as anything else.
Then making the switch from fluid and patch to BACO bore wipes for target. Necessity was the mother of that invention.
In the 40-65 for silhouette in the shade still use fluid and patch most of the time.
Shot my first 15 straight Rams and Turkeys at Raton with 40-65 fluid and patch. Most of the time still use fluid and patch.
Fluid and patch can work for shooting in the open until the humidity drops and the temp rises.
My philosophy is: I want it to work 110% of the time, 99.9% of the time is not good enough.
If paper patch worked for me 110% of the time I might use them.
Then making the switch from fluid and patch to BACO bore wipes for target. Necessity was the mother of that invention.
In the 40-65 for silhouette in the shade still use fluid and patch most of the time.
Shot my first 15 straight Rams and Turkeys at Raton with 40-65 fluid and patch. Most of the time still use fluid and patch.
Fluid and patch can work for shooting in the open until the humidity drops and the temp rises.
My philosophy is: I want it to work 110% of the time, 99.9% of the time is not good enough.
If paper patch worked for me 110% of the time I might use them.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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bruce m
- Posts: 3350
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- Location: australia
Re: BACO bore wipes
zack,
you sound like you are coming around a little.
bruce.
you sound like you are coming around a little.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
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ian45662
- Posts: 727
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:42 pm
Re: BACO bore wipes
I completely understand. I always tell people to use what works best for them. I have my best scores with paper patch so I use them. The only reason I shoot greasers at the chickens is because I think that paper patch load is making me flinch off hand .desert deuce wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:09 pm Ian, I recall making the transition from blow tubing to wiping with fluid and patch for silhouette and target. I don't know where my blow tubes are now and that is as much a function of the conditions of where I shoot most of the time as anything else.
Then making the switch from fluid and patch to BACO bore wipes for target. Necessity was the mother of that invention.
In the 40-65 for silhouette in the shade still use fluid and patch most of the time.
Shot my first 15 straight Rams and Turkeys at Raton with 40-65 fluid and patch. Most of the time still use fluid and patch.
Fluid and patch can work for shooting in the open until the humidity drops and the temp rises.
My philosophy is: I want it to work 110% of the time, 99.9% of the time is not good enough.
If paper patch worked for me 110% of the time I might use them.
. I have a few bullets that I am going to play with this off season that patch to groove diameter and once I figure that out then I will be able to say that I don’t shoot greasers at all
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desert deuce
- Posts: 3863
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
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Re: BACO bore wipes
zack,
you sound like you are coming around a little.
bruce.
Bruce my dear friend and fellow shooter, you do seem to have this eternal optimist streak in you my friend. On occasion I have to consider if at some time in the past you very briefly became magically deluded as if a pox was cast upon you and you failed to recover. Understandable, you know living in OZ and all.
So, with reality and fact controlling my efforts I will go over this again in hopes you will seek effective therapy or at least retain the information. Other readers on this forum could benefit if in fact they have a modicum of reading comprehension skills and a dab of common sense.
Understanding this is the point of view I have evolved into while living in Realville, USA. (Mostly in 45+ years of competition.)
Long, long ago, I determined that the number one limiting factor in firearms competition is the shooter themselves. Not the rifle and not the load. As an example, a sub-moa rifle/load combination is of very little benefit to a rifleman that cannot consistently hold less than three-moa. Back to the indian not the arrow point. Pretty much indisputable fact.
Second, in long range BPCR shooting the second most controlling factor is the environmental and range conditions. (Think Byers or even better Tucson.)
This leads to the obvious conclusion that the primary limiting factors are shooter ability and environmental conditions, neither of these have anything to do with the rifle or load. AND, is what should command most of the shooter focus, as in exercise the fundamentals correctly and executing the shot to minimize negative environmental factors.
I have personally observed on several occasions paper patch shooters damage the paper patch on the loaded round during handling but mostly upon chambering the round during record fire, realizing this, putting the round aside and selecting another or pushing the damaged patched round back in the chamber and firing that shot. NEVER, I repeat NEVER, did that damaged patched round hit paper.
Then we have a top level Long Range Rifleman that spent many hours perfecting a paper patch load for his favorite proven long range rifle. The load showed great promise at their home range. I was pulling their target at a Regional Long Range Match. Total score day one, relay one at 800 yards was an 8, that is as in an eight. Being 92 points down on the first relay of a two day Creedmoor the shooter took a DNF for the rest of the match. Common sense suggested to me I did not want to learn that lesson the hard way.
From experience I know that frequently ten or less points separate the match winner from the third place shooter. One dirt digger from a crinkled paper patch load showering rocks on the target is not an alibi Bruce, it is a miss and scores a minus ten and realistically could take the shooter out of contention.
Which brings us to the most important point of all. Philosophically and realistically speaking shooting is a mental exercise. Shooting well is 4% ability and 96% mental, while shooting poorly is 100% mental. I have seen this over and over again. The best technical shooter with the best rifle and load at some point lets a little teenie tiny spider spin a cobweb in his mind and totally obliterates that 4% factor and they fall apart, even if for only one or two shots and they are no longer a contender.
I believe to be a successful long range shooter it is important to eliminate potential negative factors, not incorporate them in the plan. While not a guarantee of a problem, using paper patch in competition introduces a potential problem that does not exist with grease groove bullets. Moreover, the paper patched bullet shoots no better than the grease groove in my rifles and in two not as well with me on the trigger. And Bruce, that is why I encourage all the best shooters to use paper patch.
I shoot in competition to post the best score I am capable of that day on that range and having fun in the process. Period.
you sound like you are coming around a little.
bruce.
Bruce my dear friend and fellow shooter, you do seem to have this eternal optimist streak in you my friend. On occasion I have to consider if at some time in the past you very briefly became magically deluded as if a pox was cast upon you and you failed to recover. Understandable, you know living in OZ and all.
So, with reality and fact controlling my efforts I will go over this again in hopes you will seek effective therapy or at least retain the information. Other readers on this forum could benefit if in fact they have a modicum of reading comprehension skills and a dab of common sense.
Understanding this is the point of view I have evolved into while living in Realville, USA. (Mostly in 45+ years of competition.)
Long, long ago, I determined that the number one limiting factor in firearms competition is the shooter themselves. Not the rifle and not the load. As an example, a sub-moa rifle/load combination is of very little benefit to a rifleman that cannot consistently hold less than three-moa. Back to the indian not the arrow point. Pretty much indisputable fact.
Second, in long range BPCR shooting the second most controlling factor is the environmental and range conditions. (Think Byers or even better Tucson.)
This leads to the obvious conclusion that the primary limiting factors are shooter ability and environmental conditions, neither of these have anything to do with the rifle or load. AND, is what should command most of the shooter focus, as in exercise the fundamentals correctly and executing the shot to minimize negative environmental factors.
I have personally observed on several occasions paper patch shooters damage the paper patch on the loaded round during handling but mostly upon chambering the round during record fire, realizing this, putting the round aside and selecting another or pushing the damaged patched round back in the chamber and firing that shot. NEVER, I repeat NEVER, did that damaged patched round hit paper.
Then we have a top level Long Range Rifleman that spent many hours perfecting a paper patch load for his favorite proven long range rifle. The load showed great promise at their home range. I was pulling their target at a Regional Long Range Match. Total score day one, relay one at 800 yards was an 8, that is as in an eight. Being 92 points down on the first relay of a two day Creedmoor the shooter took a DNF for the rest of the match. Common sense suggested to me I did not want to learn that lesson the hard way.
From experience I know that frequently ten or less points separate the match winner from the third place shooter. One dirt digger from a crinkled paper patch load showering rocks on the target is not an alibi Bruce, it is a miss and scores a minus ten and realistically could take the shooter out of contention.
Which brings us to the most important point of all. Philosophically and realistically speaking shooting is a mental exercise. Shooting well is 4% ability and 96% mental, while shooting poorly is 100% mental. I have seen this over and over again. The best technical shooter with the best rifle and load at some point lets a little teenie tiny spider spin a cobweb in his mind and totally obliterates that 4% factor and they fall apart, even if for only one or two shots and they are no longer a contender.
I believe to be a successful long range shooter it is important to eliminate potential negative factors, not incorporate them in the plan. While not a guarantee of a problem, using paper patch in competition introduces a potential problem that does not exist with grease groove bullets. Moreover, the paper patched bullet shoots no better than the grease groove in my rifles and in two not as well with me on the trigger. And Bruce, that is why I encourage all the best shooters to use paper patch.
I shoot in competition to post the best score I am capable of that day on that range and having fun in the process. Period.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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powderburnt
- Posts: 235
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- Location: Central Arkansas
Re: BACO bore wipes
Eloquently and well put DD. Reminds me of Headley Lamarr from Blazing Saddles. What did Slim Pickens say?
I have the honor of hanging out with a former international and Olympic gold medalist in high power and small bore and have heard the same from him. He can still beat most anyone with their own gun, especially when conditions are tough.
HG
I have the honor of hanging out with a former international and Olympic gold medalist in high power and small bore and have heard the same from him. He can still beat most anyone with their own gun, especially when conditions are tough.
HG
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bruce m
- Posts: 3350
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
- Location: australia
Re: BACO bore wipes
hg,
you are absolutely right.
most eloquent indeed.
bruce.
you are absolutely right.
most eloquent indeed.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
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Coltsmoke
- Posts: 1517
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- Location: GA.
Re: BACO bore wipes
DD, there is a way to prevent the damaged patch when chambering the round. Load your ammo with the bullet a half thousandths under bore dia. I got lucky, my paper adds .0055 to the bullet, so a bullet that is 394 comes out to be .3995. After firing the round and cleaning the bore, use a chamber mop and push it into the rifling about 1.5" to make sure there is no fouling left where the bullet will be when chambered, problem solved. If your paper doesn't wrap the bullet with a half thousandths under bore, you have to order a bullet mold that will be a full thousandths under bore and then lap the mold out a half thousandths to achieve the desired results. Problem solved. Takes a little work to do that, but not that hard to do, or you can just shoot GG.
I don't have the solution for a score of 8.
I don't have the solution for a score of 8.
Normal isn't coming back, but Jesus is.
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ian45662
- Posts: 727
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Re: BACO bore wipes
The only time me paper seems to get damaged is if I have a little bit of fouling left in the area just ahead of the chamber. I always know that is what causes it because when the projectile gets pushed back out one can see the fouling all over the projectile. With the OE I had that problem a lot but with Swiss , for me, it’s rarely an issue unless I am using the BACO wipers then it starts becoming an issue. I have had more issues with the greasers than I have had with paper but that was before BACO came out with those wipers. A couple weekends ago a saw a guy shoot a 10 @ 1000. He was shooting greasers.