Bore Scope Recommendation

[Waldo]

Well, I used my new Lyman Bore Scope for the first time last night. Very pleased with the product but as I was warned I was surprised at how the bore of my 40-65 looked. I did not look at my 45-70 yet. The bore appeared clean which is what took me down this path in the first place. I have to take another close look at the end of the chamber to insure I have removed the suspected carbon ring.

The detail the Lyman shows of the bore is amazing. I can see the machining marks on the groves and lands. I can see what I think are chatter marks from the machining of the barrel. What troubles me is I see marks running parallel to the bore starting where the camber meets the rifling. I see them on the groves and the lands. My first thought was that I did this cleaning. But I am not sure my jag or cleaning rod could get down into the groves and in some cases close to the lands. I use nylon and brass Shiloh jags on a Shiloh stainless rod. I also use a Steve Rhodes delrin rod.

What I see is troubling but the rifle is capable of moa groups if I do my part?

It is supposed to warm up into the upper 40's here today and I was hoping to go to the range for a while. After cleaning I will scope the barrel again. Then as recommended try some JB's on the bore.

Wally

[Woody]

Unless I missed it, who's barrel? If it's a cut barrel, they are normally lapped after cutting.

Woody

[Waldo]

Woody,

Its a Shiloh Barrel.

Wally

[Woody]

Thanks. That rules out lapping marks.

Woody

[Kurt]

I have a groove when I got it that runs the length of the bore in my .50 Shiloh on a land top too. But after more then 20K rounds through it the reamer tool marks are gone and the rifle shoots better then ever.
The Battery was running low in my Hawkeye so it's a little dark.

[Waldo]

Kurt,

Thanks for the photo that really helps. I was worried I had damaged my barrel.

Wally

[Waldo]

Today i went to the range and fired 20 rounds. Rifle shot well 10 of those 20 were in a <1" group at 100 yards. It was a nice day for this time of year in Wisconsin. 48 deg, Dew point 29, RH 57%. I paid special attention to my blow tubing thinking my fouling control could be improved on after my last trip to the range and all the cleaning issues. So I did 10 deep breaths before each shot usually I do 5-6. No problems at the range.

Cleaning was a different story. I got more lead out with my first patch than I have ever seen. I proceeded to drive tight patches soaked in Shiloh bore cleaner For a good 1 1/2 hours until they came out clean. Stroked the bore several times with a dry patch and it came out with black streaks.

So out comes the new Lyman Bore Scope and I can immediately see what has to be lead. I can see the lead the entire 30" of barrel to different degrees. No idea why but now with the bore scope at least i can see what is going on.

Thanks to everyone who provided suggestions for a scope. i am no longer blind. Now to figure out what is causing all the leading?
Wally

[Woody]

10 breaths is way more than necessary for cool weather fouling control. I was at the range this morning too working up a new lot of Swiss for one of my 45-70's. Three breaths is all I used. 32 degrees this morning.

I don't think your excessive blow tubing contributed to your leading issue. What is your alloy? Usually the softer the alloy, the less leading. If your bullet design will allow, you might try a softer mix. I typically shoot a 40 shot silhouette match with cleaning or wiping between relays. This means 55 to 60 rounds and blow tubing only. Accuracy does not suffer and clean-up is the same as firing one shot.

I shot thirty rounds in my testing today. The last group was the best. I've already prepped for the next test. We will see what tomorrow brings.

Woody

[mdeland]

Get you a little bottle of Gunzilla Wally and you will get out all the lead in 6-8 tight patches. Leave a bit in the bore and it won't lead as much the next time.

[Waldo]

Woody,

This is the same load I have been using for two years now. This issue started in August and seems to be getting worse. Unless I am just being more observant. The patches come out clean unless you stroke a dry patch several times. So at first glance it appears clean. Now with the bore scope I can see the lead that was not there before going to the range.

Bullet Saeco 640 sized to .408
Alloy 20-1 from Roto metals
52 grains swiss 1 1/2 f
DGL Lube
Barrel prepped with bore butter
.060 walters wad
Winchester 45-70 brass formed to 40-65

Wally

[Woody]

There is nothing there that says "Hello" to me. The only difference that I see could make any difference is the alloy and wad. In my 40, and for that matter all of my BPCR's, I use 25 to 1 alloy, only because I can mix it so easily, and I switched to LDPE wads 10/12 years ago. So many shooters use 20 to 1 and fiber wads with success that I hesitate in blaming either. I'm still scratching to give you an answer you can hang your hat on.

Woody

[Lumpy Grits]

Use DGL only.
Worth a try--
Gary

[Waldo]

Gary,

I have always used DGJ it has served me well. One thing I noticed as I was packing up to leave the range. I blow tubed with 10 deep breaths and then pushed a dry patch through the bore with a delrin Steve Rhodes rod. It felt gritty and did not push through easily. After my last bore cleaning issue I was checking my fouling management and am wondering if that contributed or is the cause of the leading.

I know you live in the desert and deal with really dry conditions. Not sure how the dew point and RH compare to your shooting environment using DGL but the dew point was pretty low here yesterday.

Temp: 44 ish
Dew Point: 29
RH: 57

Wally

[Lumpy Grits]

What I meant was to drop the B'butter and use DGL only.
10 breaths is way to much-Would kill me
How much are you compressing powder/wad for the bullet?
Just returned from the range
65*, 14%RH @4K' ASL.
G.

[Waldo]

Gary,

Got it. DGL instead of bore butter. Yes 10 breaths made me light headed. I guess i was concerned that my previous problems were caused by my blow tubing so I went from 4-6 breaths to 10.

.060 Walters wad
Zero compression point is 50 grains of swiss 1 1/2 F. I am using 52 grains.

Wally