Highest measured BC on a .45 cal bullet

[bruce m]

zack,
for me 2 moa vert is good at 600, and harder at 1000.
i have never shot 1000 in wind that would allow me to get as low as 2 moa vert or 1.5 moa windage.
96 is a good score at 600, and exceptional at 1000.
as you describe your group, the elevation setting might have been about 1 moa low?
easy to say afterward when someone else has shot, but could have cost a few points and even a few x.
wish i could shoot that well.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Steve Rhoades]

Tim,
A 96 at 1000 yards is a pretty good score. I would think you would want to keep a record of it.
Sorry you are upset. Not!

[Tombstone71]

How about a 98 3X at 800 yds. Got a record of that, day two creedmoor nationals at raton last year

Won 1st marksman all six days and shot into the top of expert class.


Kiss Me Fat Boy

[desert deuce]

My good friend Bruce of the elevated mound and distant view from another hemisphere.

Please.........do not construe that each and every time I lie down on the mat and address the target that it results in inch and a half high groups at 600 or two minute groups at 1,000, OR, even that such results were intentional. They are not except in competition when score becomes paramount, yet, reality sets in just before signing the score card. Then there are days when a 6 can be a blessing in place of a miss when a 209x0 wins a 15 shot 1,000 yard match.

As you know, because you are a critical thinking, experienced, astute and accomplished rifleman, when you are engaged in shooting from those longer yard lines the best results come when you are focused on executing the fundamentals correctly and it is purely rote to stick the push pin in the corresponding location on the pin board of the target and it is after the final shot in the string that you evaluate the result, not during. My rule of thumb when testing a new load is to shoot for a group, not a score. Yesterday I was shooting for group with a new load, AND, since I was fortunate enough to have an unusually stable condition I could only muck up the results by tinkering with the elevation and windage knobs. I saw the tweak in conditions that resulted in the almost ten at 3 o'clock that was marked a nine but kept the adjustment to verify the reliability of the new load because I was testing a new load rather than shooting for a score. (Which presented the opportunity to over correct also. That it was a true 3 o'clock mark it verified the ability of the load to hold elevation. And most of us know how important that is.)

Moreover, that I was shooting from a covered firing point in those no wind conditions no doubt contributed to the enhanced performance from the rifle/load combination. Even so, after about 8 shots special attention was given to mitigation of bore fouling. So, actually the results were a pleasant surprise.

Shoot, recover from recoil, look through spotting scope and all you can see is smoke hanging in front of the firing point. Flags hanging straight down on the poles, mirage a light boil

Wish you could have been here for it Bruce.

BTW, have one bunk available in the wall tent for the extravaganza shoot March 2018. Yours free if you want it. But let me know soon!

Steering wheel on left, drive on right.

[Jim Kidwell]

How about a 98 3X at 800 yds. Got a record of that, day two creedmoor nationals at raton last year
Won 1st marksman all six days and shot into the top of expert class.

Just curious, How many Marksman were in your group?

[Tombstone71]

4 or 5 Jim, no more than that

[bruce m]

zack,
now we know all the facts, we can say the load is potentially better than a 2 moa lod.
first reason is that the group was anly 1.5 moa wide.
rarely are long range groups narrower than they are high.
this adds weight to the mirage description.
in no wind, the mirage will mostly be going straight up to varying degrees.
this means that the target always appears higher than it actually is, but to slightly varying degrees.
you can only aim at what you see, so there is vert in poi.
if the mirage moves a bit left or right of up and down, the target will also go with it to a degree.
plus the gun will usually shoot better than even a good shooter.
suggestive of a load to run with.
your testing of vert by not adjusting the elevation setting is also used here, and reminds me of an amusing incident.
testing at 1000 yds with a mate marking the target, the only 2 people on the range.
started shooting with 15 points on the sight, and near the flagline as it was easier to see the flags.
needed to keep winding on wind as shooting progressed to stay on the target, until the last 2 shots needed 30 points.
these shots seemed out of context.
when pulling in the flags. the 2 middle ones had 2 bullet holes in them.
the out of context shots are a credit to bullet stability and penetration when you think how they would have been disturbed in flight by going through flags.
keep safe,
bruce.

[J.B.]

Steering wheel on left, drive on right. [/quote]


... Yes ...that can be a trick for the unwary Actually its more of a challenge after one has stopped for a snack...and then re-engages the traffic flow. Up to the edge of the car park entrance...and the urge is there to turn left...until one looks left and sees three ton or more of pick up heading their way with a fifth wheel in tow ... Once was enough Quite the invitation there Zac.
... As we down here in the 'cells' ..are on the 31st and approaching New Years.... I take the opportunity to wish each and everyone a happy, safe and prosperous New Year. To those that can shoot and of course those of us that keep trying... "keep it up".

best regards... J.B.

[bruce m]

yes j.b.,
it is that time of year that reminds you the you have 1 less year to live.
keep safe,
bruce.

[desert deuce]

You know J.B. if El Bruce fails to report for the March match you could always take his place.

The tent is spacious, has a floor and all amenities are close by. All cots have new canvass.

We even speak a discernable form of English here in Arizona. At least those that speak English at all do.

Really, shouldn't a World Championship have at least one Aussie lurking about the firing line, eh

Sorry, all steering wheels are on the left though.

[J.B.]

But the 'meter is running' for all of us Bruce . All the more reason to make the most of ones time. I'll be a 'glass half empty' tonight as I'll be at work...but I'm looking forward to the 'glass half full' tomorrow.

J.B.

[J.B.]

[quote="desert deuce"]You know J.B. if El Bruce fails to report for the March match you could always take his place.

... Can't say I'm not tempted Zack... but ( there it is ! ) ..but.. the gap between March and June is fairly lengthy...and I hope to touch down in Montana again in June for the Q. Not that I wouldnt like to travel about the U.S. for 2-3 months going to shoots, seeing the country and meeting the people in between times but it's not going to happen ....yet. As for 'lurking' ... we can be good at that... although I thought 'skulking' was more my style.

All the best
J.B.

[bruce m]

j.b.,
might be time to move up in the world from steel to paper.
with paper a hit might not be enough - it has to be nearer the centre.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce m]

further thoughts on zack's group.
an absolutely steady wind, say 10 points on the sight, would reduce the vert due to better mirage condition.
the mirage was probably putting centre of group about 1 moa higher than no mirage.
take away the mirage and the group would have been 1 moa lower.
if the wind were from 3.00 o'clock the group would have come up 1 moa due to bullet spin, or roughly the same elevation as no wind and mirage.
if the wind were coming from the left, the group would go 1 moa lower again, or 2 moa lower in total.
possibly those suggested elevation changes are slightly different than real world, but would be close.
if you are shooting in some wind, and a boil comes on, this shows the danger of such.
it also shows the danger of having to go across centre in fishtails.
you can make a perfect wincall left/right and lose a point each time to elevation.
this sounds simple here, but under match pressure and trying to maintain a bore condition and time is running out you need a clear mind.
you need to shoot enough that most things are a mechanical habit, leaving the mind some space to deal with complexities.
keep safe,
bruce.

[desert deuce]

Well J.B., thanks for considering the offer anyway. And as for skulking, my observations of Canadians, Kiwi's, Auzzies and Brits on the range is that they are generally incapable of skulking even if they tried. Generally cheery up beat lot of happy shooters they are. Have been paired with Terry Smith, firearms engraver for Holland and Holland of London, I think twice at Raton. Great fellow and what a fancy rifle he carries.

I agree Bruce. The mirage contributed to the vert. You are so astute. You have well above average reading comprehension skills also.

Shooting through a flag, wow. Here in Tucson line of sight is over the top of the flag poles at 1,000 so hitting a flag would almost have to be intentional. Interesting results though. Imagine the force of a wind shear that deflects a bullet straight down 20 points at 1,000 yards? And you never see it, just the effects.