Has anyone been winning with the 40-70 SS?

[John W]

Quick question...

Has anyone been winning with the 40-70 SS? Are they shooting just as accurately or even more accurately than the more common calibers? (Within the range limitations of this cartridge, of course).

I am considering my 1877 in the 40-70SS, but I am on the fence about it... I am thinking that just a standard 45-70 or 40-65 would be a better choice.

R,
John W.

[Del]

It all depends on what you want to do with it. I see you're from Japan so I'm not sure if you have any silhouette or gong or long range events to shoot? What are you're plans for the rifle?

It's really hard to go wrong with a 45-70. If I had just one rifle, it would be a 45-70. Has enough velocity and size to deal with any animal on earth if you want to hunt with it, enough power and accuracy for long range events, enough knockdown for long range silhouettes, easy to find brass, forgiving on learning to reload for it and make shoot accurately, not too obnoxious on recoil, and easy to sell if you ever want out of it...

[rdnck]

Get a 45-70 or a 40-65. Forget the 40-70ss. I have all three. You'll thank me later. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Don McDowell]

There have been some awfully good scores shot in both sillhoette and bptr midrange with the 40-70. Have also seen some pretty decent scores in gong matches shot with a 40-70. I have a 40-70, and am on the list for a 77 in 40-70, it's a decent cartridge.
With all that said I do believe there are better 40 caliber cartridges for a do it all rifle, 40-82 and 40-90 bn in particular.
When you get down to the who's winning with cartridge x, it doesn't matter what the cartridge is, it's the shooter and spotter that come into real play.
So it's easy to say more matches are won with the 45xx, but at the same time the statistics will show more people loosing matches with the 4x-xx than winning with it.
Moral of the story pick the cartridge you want, and then go have fun.

[rdnck]

Sometimes the fun is harder to come by with the 40-70ss. It IS a handsome cartridge, though. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[DeadEye]

In 2005 I was deciding on what my next Shiloh would be. I like so many before me thought there was a tremendous 'cool factor' in the 40-70SS. I was talking to Lucinda and said I was leaning that way. She immediately said that with my experience, one year or so at the time, to go with the 40-65 as I already had the 45-70. I did and I've never been sorry. Since that time this discussion has come up many times at the various Silhouette and Gong matches we attend. I am always surprised by the number of shooters in the discussion who have a 40-70SS at HOME IN THE SAFE. They are there shooting their 45-70, 45-90, 40-65 or whatever but the 40-70SS is at home. When asked most admit that they just can't get it to shoot consistently. One day it's great the next day it's all over the place so they say. It's 12 years later and I've added a 45-90 as well but I've never been sorry that I listened to Lucinda that day. I still love the look of the cartridge and would like to see if I can make one shoot consistently but I can't afford to have a Safe Queen either. It's a conundrum

Paul

[Don McDowell]

Sometimes the fun is harder to come by with the 40-70ss. It IS a handsome cartridge, though. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Yeh buddy it sure is. My current 40-70 shoots a number of different bullets well, but only one consistantly well, but I think that's more due to the chamber and barrel twist. But the cartridge is a handsome devil.

[rdnck]

My 40-70 definitely is picky. It shoots paper patch extremely well, but only one 385 grain round nosed bullet out of four different 40 caliber paper patch molds I own . And that with only KIK 2f powder. It won't shoot Goex, or Swiss, or Olde Eyensford. I only hunt with it from time to time, because my supply of KIK 2f IS limited, and there is no more available. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Don McDowell]

The bullet this rifle will consistently shoot well in a 360 gr .400 diameter paper patch bullet from one of BACO's moulds. It will shoot Swiss 1 1/2 and OE 1 1/2 to equal groups. It is only one of a couple of rifles I have that won't shoot the KIK well, it does also like it when I dig into the remaining supply of Cartridge.
Of course I should state this rifle is not a Shiloh, and certainly not up to the quality standards of the Shiloh rifles, and I am dearly looking forward to the pay up or die letter on my 77. Then this current rifle is liable to find it's self wearing a fancy 22 lr barrel.

[John W]

Thank you everyone.

Excellent advice. I must say I was considering the cartridge because of how damn good it looks - a straight wall .40 cal. Not the strong taper like the 40-65 (which by all accounts is an excellent cartridge, but I just don't like the looks of it!).

Looks like I may just go with another 45-70. Maybe I'll just spec out a different twist, like a 1-16".

Thanks again!
R,
John W.

[bruce m]

it never ceases to amaze that some shooters find the 40/2.5" hard to get shooting.
in its day it was known as a seriously accurate mid range cartridge, to the extent it was de rigeur to use it.
remington, sharps and almost all brands of rifle were chambered for it.
it was a pp cartrige as used in the day.
it was also commonly referred to as the 40/65, so charges varied.
while i have never owned one, i have shot out the barrel on a 40/72, which is the same case but about 2.6" long or 1/10" longer.
this has proven to be honest with greasers and 70 to 74 gns of powder as well as pp with 80 to 85 gns of powder.
ragegged i hole groups at 100 yds were not hard to establish with swiss 1.0 and 1.5, and wano 1p.
it was just a matter of trying different compressions in the std manner starting from 0 and increasing in small increments. then start again at different seating depths, until best accuracy was discovered.
matching the bullet to the twist and experimenting with alloy and primers also helped.
the barrel was shot out because it has been the go to gun for all uses, and having a faster twist, including out to 1000 yds.
in fact it can mix it with a 45/2.4" out to 1000 in the wind with less recoil.
what knowledge have modern shooters lost that the o.d.g knew?
modern guys are inclined to prefer urban myth to doing the yards in both work and thinking.
do the yards and results will be the reward.
then you can have a sharps in an original chambering that will shoot.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Kurt]

The .40-70 was the first caliber Shiloh I ordered and it has shot well enough for me to collect several dust collectors shooting gong shoots. I like the caliber and I guess for me it was not hard to find a load, several loads in fact that will shoot well enough to be competitive but when the winds get tough I wore out the wind knob on the tang sight this made me get a .50-2.5 and I shot this rifle for many years and it became my favorite for long range shooting. Now for long range I went to the .45-2.4 and it is doing everything I expect from it. The .40-2.5 is a good caliber.
Kurt

[rdnck]

I strongly suspect that it is an individual rifle issue. Some shoot really well for some people, and enough of them shoot poorly or give inconsistent accuracy for enough folks that the rifles wind up as Safe Queens. I DO know that when I was having a lot of trouble getting mine to shoot that Kurt sent me a Brooks mold for a 400 or so grain round nosed greaser. This mold shot really well in Kurt's rifle, and since I was getting 5 inch 100 yard groups at the time, when this bullet gave me 1 3/4 to 2 inch groups at 100, I was happy to say the least. I tried to buy the mold from Kurt, but he declined to sell it. I really didn't think he would, because no one sells an accurate mold, but I thought I would ask. No problem, I'll send a bullet to Brooks and have him make a duplicate. When the new mold arrived, Brooks did a great job of it . The bullet looked great, and the measurements were spot on. The only problem was that the rifle wouldn't shoot the new bullet. Back to 4 and 5 inch groups at 100.

It took two years to find a bullet/load that will shoot consistently in that rifle, and shoot it will. Someone told me--I forget who--that Harry Pope said that the 40-70ss was an accurate round "if an accurate load can be found". I think old Harry summed it up pretty well with that assessment. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Kurt]

Bill my rifle is a good shooter but it turned out more or less being a safe queen also.
I take it along to the range a lot of times incase some young shooters take an interest and I offer to let them shoot it and seldom get turned down. I just love that gig smile on their face when they spin that bowling pin hanging from a pipe at 200 yards When they hit it with their .223 most shoot they barely make it wiggle but what the 400 gr lead bullet from the .40 hits it that pin either splinters or it just spins around the pipe it's hanging from then they look at Mom or Dad and out comes a WOW with a big smile

[John W]

... Harry Pope said that the 40-70ss was an accurate round "if an accurate load can be found". I think old Harry summed it up pretty well with that assessment. Shoot straight, rdnck.

This is a great quote!

R,
John W.