16 to one or 20 to one

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kenny s
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16 to one or 20 to one

Post by kenny s »

using a paper patch 420 .392 in my 40 70 SS,
which mix would you recommend?
16 to one or 20 to one.

thanks..Ken
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Dennis Armistead
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by Dennis Armistead »

I would imagine that what ratio you use is up to you. I use pure lead for my patched rounds because that's what I hunt with. I think the most common ratio would be 30-1 or 20-1. Just my opinion.
Dennis
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kenny s
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by kenny s »

good thought. I shoot targets only, so I'm looking for the best load.
I'm trying
reg primers instead of magnum
9 pound BA 25% cotton paper instead of 8 pound 55W
and a little more compression on the 64 grains of OE

I've noticed, the 20 -1,with the 9 pound paper is tighter in the breach to load. needs a slight push.
The 16 to 1 , 8 pound, just slips in while the 20 to 1 , 9 pound is tighter, but it is shooting 3 inches or less at 100. only a start I know.

The targets will tell. bore is .408/.400, a Shiloh 40 70 SS , and the gun is only a month old.

So far, so good.....
thanks..Ken
firefighter1990
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by firefighter1990 »

My ratios are dependant on bullet shape. My elliptical and money go 16:1 as they're more prone to nose slump then say a round nose. My hunting bullets are pure and of the the traditional "sharps" design. I'm still fairly new to ppb's myself though so take my advice for what it's worth. Maybe load up a few of different tempers and see how they print
SchuetzenDave
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by SchuetzenDave »

The spitzers used in the Schuetzen game are even more susceptible to nose slump.

I shot for two years with each alloy of 20:1 and 25:1.

Scores were always better shooting 20:1 so I assumed I had no problems with nose slumping.

25:1 never faired so well and I lost an average 6 points on each ASSRA or ISSA target with the softer alloy.

I was shooting 7000 bullets per year in the test.
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Don McDowell
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by Don McDowell »

20-1 will most likely be your best bet. 16-1 if it's a "money" nose.
Pure lead is the wrong way to go for the best accuracy with paper patch.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
bruce m
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by bruce m »

dave,
were you using black or smokeless in your scheutzn loads, and which cartridge?
both these things are relevent.
kenny,
the baco paper vs seth cole will affect your patched to diameter far more than the alloy.
if the bullets don't slide into the rifling too hard, that is a good thing.
the harder the alloy, the shorter the patch will need to be, but the difference is small, and confetti will tell you.
it is worth patchig a little long, and seeing where the confetti is cut to as a means of establishing patch length.
optimum bullet hardness for target shooting is as hard as you can go and still get a good gas seal, and there is only 1 way to establish this.
the reason is that the bullet bumps up only the necessary ammount, any softer alloy producing unwanted barrel friction that can affect velocity variation.
in the day 20:1 was used in the 40/70 as a hunting and general purpose alloy, which allowed for some bullet expansion when hitting an animal.
the bullets used were not nose shaped for long range shootin, and their weights made for short bullets.
longer bullets will bump up more than short bullets.
16:1 was a mid range hardness, and 12:1 was about max for long range bullets and some general bullets.
your wadstack will also affect bumpup, and therefore bullet hardness requirement.
softer wad needs softer alloy.
in the end, you need to shoot many shots of all alloys to get a valid comparison.
to quote the classics "one group does not an accurate rifle make."
do not fall for the old adage of not wanting to waste good ammo after 1 or 2 good groups.
this is a statistics game. you need lots of data to make meaningful comparisons.
keep safe,
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
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kenny s
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by kenny s »

great advice Bruce, That's my plan...What's my wife's name again? :roll:
thanks..Ken
bruce m
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by bruce m »

kenny,
it is all about the journey.
many of us are still trying to approach the mountain.
a few are beginning to climb it.
some think they are at the top, and for this reason will never get there.
keep safe,
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
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kenny s
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by kenny s »

climbing gear out. hat on...gun ready for the climb.... :lol:
SchuetzenDave
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Re: 16 to one or 20 to one

Post by SchuetzenDave »

In the Schuetzen alloy test I was using Paul Jones spitzers using smokeless powder (H108) in the breech seated .32 RKS @ 1526 fps.
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