450 Money Bullet

[ChrisF]

Anyone using that bullet for Chickens or maybe out farther than that. 45-90 2.4

[rdnck]

Chris--Get a Lyman Postell mold, 457132. Cast your bullets out of whatever alloy suits your fancy. 20-1 or 50/50 wheel weights and lead works just fine. Lube with SPG or something similar. Load 74 grains of 2f for chickens and pigs, and 84 grains of 2f for turkeys and rams or anything farther down range. Light it off with a CCI BR2 and you are in business. BTDT. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Coltsmoke]

I agree with rdnk, you need to eat up some powder room for chickens and the Postel will do just that. It is the best chicken bullet I have found for a .45. No need for a money bullet to shoot at chickens.

[SchuetzenDave]

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 535 Grains
Bullet Length 1.43 Inches
Barrel Twist 18 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.42

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 535 Grains
Bullet Length 1.43 Inches
Barrel Twist 20 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.96

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 535 Grains
Bullet Length 1.43 Inches
Barrel Twist 22 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.62

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 450 Grains
Bullet Length 1.265 Inches
Barrel Twist 18 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.87

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 450 Grains
Bullet Length 1.265 Inches
Barrel Twist 20 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.32

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 450 Grains
Bullet Length 1.265 Inches
Barrel Twist 22 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1250 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.92

Sg shouldn't be less than 1.4. If Sg is greater than about 2.0, you may gain some accuracy by going to a slower twist barrel.

[bruce m]

chris,
your question is interesting, and an answer is based on the premise that you are looking for a reduction in recoil.
felt recoil is a perceived thing.
however the accepted method of measuring it involves a formula which is basically (weight of bullet x velocity) + (weight of powder x velocity)
divided by weight of the shooting system.
this tells us that decreasing bullet weight and powder weight will decrease recoil, as will increasing rifle weight.
the powder velocity actually is gas velocity, and is considered to be 1.5 x bullet velocity, meaning that reducing powder weight has a more significant effect than a direct one.
rifle weight has a max limit due to shooting rules, so once you reach that limit it cannot be helpful any more.
this leaves reducing bullet and powder weight.
two ways to reduce powder weight are by using a long shanked bullet, or using a filler under the bullet to use up some case capacity.
my own experience with fillers is that it is harder to come to accurate load potential.
best results have come from a hard lube wad as a volume filler.
bullet weight reduction can be approached in 2 areas, the shank and the nose,
reducing the shank gives more powder space, which will might be a negligable gain in recoil reduction without a filler.
the other , nose length reduction, can give significant gains.
most of the baco "chicken" bullets seem to reduce nose length more than shank length.
so now we see the ways to reduce recoil, what are the tradeoffs?
ballistic coefficient b.c. improvement comes from increasing weight and length of ogive for the similar profile.
we have already reduced weight, so some b.c. is reduced, then we shorten the ogive, reducing it more.
at 200 yards/meters this is not the problem the longer ranges present.
personal experience will dictate whether the tradeoff is worthwhile, and how far out this is an issue.
the old scheutzen bullets had noses more like semi wadcutters than long range bullets.
now we come to shorter bullets and twist.
in 45 cal the old gould bullet will shoot will in std twists.
maybe it is a little less accurate than longer bullets, but it will take a benchrest rifle with a 20+ power scope to tell the difference.
shooting our rifle off cross sticks or even worse offhand the difference will be unnoticeable.
my own solution to this problem was a compromise in the 45/2.4.
a 245ish gn paul jones so called creedmoor bullet, mould by baco, with 74 gns of swiss 1.0.
keep safe,
bruce.

[art ruggiero]

245 gr. bullet? art

[bruce m]

sorry art, a typo.
getting older and more doddery.
545 is the true number.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Kurt]

Bruce there is another way to reduce the bullet weight with out altering the shape.
I can change the weight of a 475.8 grain bullet to 363.7 grains with out changing the bullet diameters by just changing the alloy composition. That is 112 gr less weight for the same bullet.

[Coltsmoke]

I have chased it all for a .45 chicken bullet. Short money bullet sitting out of the case and using 4 .060 wads. Short Creedmore bullet using fillers, long shank bullets to take up powder room, regular money bullets with reduced bands just sitting deeper in the case to take up powder room, probably a couple more I've forgot about. Sell that mold and buy another one, done that more than a couple of times, shot up a case of powder and wasted a bunch of time doing it. The shorter bullets are not that good in a 18 twist .45, don't even think about it in a 16 twist. Keep the $800 in your pocket that you can spend chasing the magic chicken bullet and get a Lyman Postell and be done, unless you just need something for entertainment and more trigger time. I finally settled on the Lyman Postell with 58 grs. of powder in a 45-70, shoots great offhand. I don't know where you would be with a 45-90. You could probably use a couple of .060 wads and get the powder charge down to where you want to be. But, you never know until you try, it was a lot of fun.

[bruce m]

kurt,
as usual you can come up with a cunning plan
coltsmoke,
you should keep all the moulds you try. it brings home the money spant in a big way
my main concern with the lyman postell is who makes it.
their products are so inconsistent that i have become reticent in purchasing them, and that is no just moulds.
obviously the postell just uses a long shank with no reduced bands to use case capacity, and there are more reliable brands that can do the same job.
keep safe,
bruce.
p.s.
lyman or ideal used to make a long bearing surface bullet in 45 cal? that looked a little like a scheutzen bullet.
i know kurt has used this bullet.
the same bullet mould made by a decent manufacturer might be worth a look at.
one issue with chasing long shanks is case thickness back at the base of the bullet.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Coltsmoke]

bruce I have a BA Postell mold that I'm playing with that belongs to a friend and he wants to sell it to me. The length of the nose is .006 shorter, the bore riding section of the nose is .002 bigger. The gg's are identical with the 2 bullets sitting side by side. The shape of the noses are identical. The bands on my Lyman are .458 the BA is .459. The bore riding section of the Lyman is .448 and the BA is .450. I done a test and the BA bullet did not shoot as good as the Lyman. My Lyman bullet is perfectly round, I guess I got lucky and got a good mold. I should have loaded the BA bullet OAL .006 shorter because of the shorter nose and that would have placed the first band in the same place as the Lyman bullet, also the band of the BA bullet is at .459 and not .458 like the Lyman bullet. So I probably need to back the OAL down another .010 to allow for that, that would be a total of .016 shorter OAL and test it again. That is the plan right now. The BA mold is a higher quality compared to the Lyman mold and I want to change over to it if I can fine tune the load and get it to shoot as good as the Lyman bullet does. Another test or two in the near future, it never ends, but it is fun.

[bruce m]

coltsmoke,
in the end it is how they shoot period.
it is just with lyman that lightning never strikes twice in the same place.
the original bullet was conceptually a good low drag bullet, probably suited to a freebore chamber for purely long range use.
the original old postell did not have a bore riding nose, but one that tapered away fron the bore.
it was at its widest less than bore diameter.
modern so called postells seem to have lost that concept.
it was good for loading dirty, and was less likely to produce leading than bore riding, but took a bit more work to get shooting sometimes.
have enjoyment and luck on your journey.
keep safe,
bruce.