1/20 ... 1/16 ... 1/10

[Etienne Brule]

Just to get your experiences, advices, readings, ...

What are the reasons that make you use of 1/x T/L alloys for your long range bullets ?

I always used 1/20: do not ask me why ... a kind of paradigm ?

I always got some flyers: I tried some 1/16 T/L bullets and things seemed to work better... I will have to shoot more to get some statistics.

What would it be to shoot 1/10 ... $$$

Then I read this:

There Is No “Magic Bullet” by Lee Shaver

Many of the muzzle loading and breech loading match rifle shooters of the 1870s used harder bullets than we do today. At least one English shooter and experimenter of the era wrote how he really preferred a bullet that was hard enough it would only obturate full diameter for the rear 1/3 to 1/2 of its length, and he settled on a bullet of about 10-1 or 12-1 alloy. He was of the opinion that the harder lead would not transfer as much energy outward towards the surface of the barrel and therefore not create as much friction on the bore and believed that it gave him higher velocities. Considering the devices they used to find bullet velocities in those days I do not know if he was truly getting higher velocities that could not be explained by the fact that a harder bullet is lighter, and a lighter bullet accelerates quicker with the same amount of powder, but he certainly proved that it made his rifle shoot flatter to 1,000 yards.

I shoot a Shiloh Sharps 45-90 with OE 1 1 1/2 81 grains with some .050 inch "in" the rifles. I use a Paul Jones mold 45001.

Please, do not kill the messenger ...

[bruce m]

etienne,
do not fear harder alloys.
i use 12:1 with bore diameter pp bullets, and they bump into the rifling no worries, shooting flatter to 1000 yds than 16:1.
greasers might behave differently, as bumpup in the grooves might affect bumpup of the bands?
your bullet has a bore riding nose which can cause leading if (when!) it bumps into the rifling.
further to lee shaver, metford also used antimony in muzzle loader bullets to harden them.
reading old writings from america suggests that the only cartridge factory loaded with pure lead bullets was the 50/70.
most of the others were loaded with 20 or 16/1.
long range shooters used in the vicinity of between 14/1 nd 11/1 for their pp bullets, experimenting with alloy for best accuracy.
suspician of the softer alloys used today comes from the fact that early smokeless shooters found that their powder might not seal the barrel due to minimized bumpup, so had to go softer.
also scheutzen shooters might have got away with softer alloys, as their bullet noses were not prone to bumpup and slump like long range bullets.
it is claimed that the paul jones creedmoor bullet is based on original bullets, but comparing it to originals it looks like a bad case of nose slump.
your comment re shooting more to get stats is a good one.
keep safe,
bruce.

[beltfed]

I am doing OK with my usual 9+1 ww/lino bullets - Elliptical/Prolate Ogive gg or PP.
They are estimated to be about 94.5% Pb, 4.5% Sb , 1% Sn (Pb-lead, Sb-antimony, Sn-tin)
They print close to and sometimes under 1 moa out to long range WHEN I DO MY PART.
beltfed/arnie

[beltfed]

OH, and forgot to mention that the ODGs , esp Brits also added Mercury to the lead alloy to further harden it.
Think about THAT nowadays....
beltfed/arnie

[Lumpy Grits]

OH, and forgot to mention that the ODGs , esp Brits also added Mercury to the lead alloy to further harden it.
Think about THAT nowadays....
beltfed/arnie

I have heard of this before-Was it used instead of tin?
Gary

[Kurt]

I have seen the mercury added to the alloy in writings but always wondered how they kept it from vaporizing when blending the alloy. Mercury evaporates below room temperature and the gold miners used to cover their pans and coat the sluice boxes to collect the fine gold and heat the gold in the pans to hurry the gold amalgamation process. I could never figure how it would mix with lead alloy.
A word using hard alloy like 1/10 or 11. You better patch it very tight to bore or slightly over. The hard alloy is good for a groove diameter PP or GG but a PP will suffer patched less then bore diameter. I think something not mentioned in the old writings using the hard alloy that they might have used a palm tool to seat the hard bullet in the throat that was over bore diameter to get the best accuracy.
And a lesser diameter bullet like a .40 caliber upsets better then a .45 or larger using hard alloy especially if a smidge antimony is used.

[Don McDowell]

Etienne, I have settled on 16-1 for everything black powder loaded, from the 32wcf on up to the 45 2 7/8, that alloy shoots well in either grooved or naked bullets.

[beltfed]

My alloy of choice for almost every type of shooting- BPCR, CBA, Schuetzen , Magnum pistol,etc
is 9+1 ww/lino. Makes for an alloy estimated at: 94.5% lead/4.5% antimony/1% tin
Hardness is about 15 brinnell as measured by a friend's Lee hardness tester.
Works for me. No problems with slumping on about any bullet design.
GG and now PP. But, note that the current PP bullets have a "Patch to groove" base band
along with patch to bore diameter body and showing excellent accuracy for several of us.
beltfed/arnie

[dbm]

I have heard of this before-Was it [mercury] used instead of tin?

Gary,
I have read of Rigby using mercury, but the mix is unclear. Also, Alexander Henry had reference to an alloy using mercury. I have an article here: Rigby, Quicksilver & Bullet Alloys

David

[Lumpy Grits]

Thank you, David
G.