45 2.1 Loading

[High Desert Hunter]

Since I do not want to hijack Cort's new owner thread, I thought I would create a new one. I am the new owner of a 34" heavy barreled #1 Sporter with a Soule long range rear, and a #113 up front. I have been loading the 2.1 case for almost 20 years, I have a Marlin SS Guide Gun, and a Ruger #1, 99.99% of my loading has been smokeless. I have 5 molds casting a 345, 415, 420, 460, and 500+ grain bullets. Mostly I have just used COWW, but do have about 600# of almost pure lead. I have several pounds of GOEX FFFg and a couple of pounds of FFg. My intent is to shoot only black through the Sharps, so I am reading as much as I can get my hands on. So far it seems with my Lyman 457125 mold, anything more than 60 grains of powder is causing the nose to deform wh3n seating, I am compressing, using a .031 card wad, lube cookie, and another .031 wad under the bullet, so the bullet seats easy to the bottom of the top grease groove, then it gets considerably more difficult. This is with 65gr of Fig, and cases trimmed to 2.1. Wondering how many of my steps I am doing wrong, I mean other than not having a drop tube yet, a scale with enough range to weigh my bullets for consistency, and not shooting paper patch. In truth, the paper patch is going to be a late 2018 early 2019 adventure. Goal is the White Buffalo at the NRA center 4 1/2 hours North, and the Quigley sometime in the future.

[Dennis Armistead]

Always use a compression die. If you try to compress to much powder with the bullet it will deform. Use about .002" neck tension when seating annealed brass.
Dennis

[High Desert Hunter]

So I do need a dedicated compression die instead of using the expander plug, I am annealing my cases, and I need a drop tube.

[Dennis Armistead]

Measure your desired amount of powder, say 63gr. of FF , drop tube around 24" place a .060" fiber wad on top, compress with a compression die (flat bottom) not convex like a ex pander die to desired depth and let sit for a few seconds then seat your round on top of the wad with proper seating die to the shape of your bullet nose, if you don't have one use JB Weld and fill in the cavity of a close shaped seating die and use one of your bullets for the nose mold. You can put a release agent on the bullet tip so the JB weld doesn't stick to it after it hardens. After you seat the bullet with around .002 tension which is .456" if your round is .458" test a group of say 10 or 15 to see how it groups. If not satisfied with the group (fouling etc.) change your load a little but only one thing at a time, say this time load the same, but give a slight taper crimp and fire a group all over again.
I know when I do load testing I may go through several hundred rounds trying to get to the point I want. Using someone else's pet load may or may not work for extreme accuracy so...enjoy, hope this helps a little.
Dennis

[High Desert Hunter]

Dennis, thank you so very much, I really appreciate it. Do you not use a grease cookie?

[Dennis Armistead]

For my hunting PP loads yes I do because of fouling control and being out in the field where a 2nd quick shot may be needed. No lube for my patched match rounds and of course no lube wad for GG bullets, just the lube in the grooves.
Dennis

[cat1870]

So I do need a dedicated compression die instead of using the expander plug, I am annealing my cases, and I need a drop tube.

Yup..

[Lumpy Grits]

Get a comp die from BACO.
Fill the case with enough 3F powder to compress about .350 with a .060 fiber wad, and seat your bullet to just cover all GG.
No crimp-Just close the case mouth enough to allow the rnd to chamber.
Get rid of the 'cookie'-No need with GG bullet
Gary

[High Desert Hunter]

Oh my, I am going to be in trouble! I know it will be worth it in the end.

[cat1870]

Oh my, I am going to be in trouble! I know it will be worth it in the end.

They're not expensive...

[cat1870]

Oh my, I am going to be in trouble! I know it will be worth it in the end.

They're not expensive...

[Clarence]

You've seen some very different recommendations on the amount of powder compression. In general, GOEX takes more compression than Swiss.

With Swiss 1.5Fg, I start with 0.050-0.060" compression and the bullets seated to just touch the lands. In general, Shiloh rifles have liked that combo and I've seldom gone further. I've read about people using a lot more compression with Swiss, so believe there are multiple "sweet spots". The only time I've used more compression with Swiss is with the Money bullet, when I seat the bullet well out to engrave 1-2 of the reduced diameter bands, and I found the sweet spot at 0-160-0.180" compression (that bullet likes a lot of speed).

My only relatively recent experience with GOEX is with Goex Express FFFg. I found it shot well when loaded similarly to Swiss 1.5Fg. But 20 yrs. ago, I started with 0.250" compression with GOEX FFg and worked up from there until I found the best combination.

As someone stated, only change one variable at a time when experimenting.

Clarence

[High Desert Hunter]

Whooooweee, first shots fired, first shots were on target, and my bullets are way too soft. While I would like to say I stuck to my guns on powder choice, I didn't. First 5 shots were GOEX FFFg, last 10 before the wind picked up were smokeless. The 5744 loads shot about 3" lower than the BP loads. I am hooked, and while I have goals, I am plain going to have fun getting there! I am going to empty my casting pot, and I am going to harden up my alloy, I am pretty sure just sizing these deformed them, the 457125 being a bore riding design shouldn't engage the rifling with the nose, going to measure those that would chamber to see how far off they are. Can't wait to recover the gun fund so I can get a compression die, decent shooting sticks, and a ways down the road, a PP mold to get to my ultimate goal of shooting PP. While the weight of the 34" barrel isn't real conducive to me shooting offhand (never much of an offhand shot to begin with), my shoulder absolutely loved the weight and the fact that recoil wasn't much more if any than my heavy barreled 22-250. Thank you all for the kind and worthy advice!

[Lumpy Grits]

What alloy are you using? Not uncommon to have 'nose-marks'.
Hope you cleaned the bore between BP and smokeless loads.
Bet that 5744 left a bunch of unburned powder in the bore.
What are you doing for fouling control, with the BP loads?
G.

[High Desert Hunter]

Unfortunately my alloy is not the 30:1 I thought, I think I got confused and added too much pure lead. For fouling control I was using a makeshift blowtube, after the first 5744 round, most of the fouling was gone, in all I fired 2 457125s with 5744, and 8 other bullets loaded with H4895.

457125 recovered_1.jpg

457125 loaded over 63gr of GOEX FFFg, distance was 100 yards.