45 2.1 Loading

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

Clarence
Posts: 2167
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:38 pm
Location: Hill Country, TX

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Clarence »

Hard to tell for sure, because one side of the bullet is in shadow, but it sure looks like you're upsetting the bullet by using it to compress the powder.

No comparison to a compression plug from BA. Then, use the math to set the wad to the point that the base of the bullet just touches it, and set the seater die so you can't upset the bullet.

I use a 0.457" expander plug, which gives me ~0.002" neck tension, and the flare diameter is 0.460", which just allows the bullet to start and seat smoothly. The Saeco Competition seater reduces the flare, so no trouble chambering a loaded cartridge. IMO, no crimp is necessary.

More than one way to do things; that's the reason for the apparently conflicting advice.

Clarence
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

I will have to measure my expander plug, I do not have the tool to measure runout, but looking at the rifling marks, they don't appear to be noticeably off from each other.
Steve crawford
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:32 pm
Location: Abilene,Texas

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Steve crawford »

Lumpy Grits wrote:YUP-if you are compressing with the bullet(VERY BAD IDEA :!: ), you are swelling the nose.
G.
Lumpy, you kept telling me that when I first got my 45/2.4 Shiloh. Took me a while to pay attention. Now I just take a random loaded shell and invert it in the muzell of the rifle. If it goes in to the first full size band then it will chamber fine. :oops: :oops: :oops:
Thanks Lumpy you have saved me more than once.

Steve
NRA Life Member TSRA Life Member
Shiloh #1 Sporter 40-2.1 Remington Rollingblock #1 40-2.1
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

457125.jpg
Marks are where it engages when inserted into the muzzle, these were sized in an NOE push through die, so no pressure on the nose.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Lumpy Grits
Posts: 7675
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: Springfield, Missouri-U.S.A. Earth

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Nose is to 'fat'.
Get ahold of Steve Brooks and get a mold made correctly.
http://brooksmoulds.com/
I recommend the Brooks Creedmoor at 540gn. You want a .448-.449 dia nose.
What maker, is this mould you are using now?
G.
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

That is from a Lyman 457125 mold. I will just have to shoot lighter bullets until I can get a new mold, as I am not shooting beyond 300 yards for now, the 415 and 420 grain bullets I cast for my Marlin and Ruger #1 will have to suffice. I have been looking at Brooks Molds, and the molds at Buffalo Arms.
User avatar
Lumpy Grits
Posts: 7675
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: Springfield, Missouri-U.S.A. Earth

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Try pan lubing, after sizing.
Can you drop the bullet nose first, into the muzzle as cast? Does it stop at the first band?
G.
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

No sir, as cast the nose measures . 451, I tried water quenching to see if it might shrink a bit as a few of my pistol bullets do, but it was the same measurement. I also discovered the nose is slightly out of round, in spots it measures .450. I will stick with the BP, but try some of my lighter bullets.
User avatar
Lumpy Grits
Posts: 7675
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: Springfield, Missouri-U.S.A. Earth

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Call Lyman and tell them the mould is out of round and the nose is to 'fat' to chamber.
G.
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

Trying to contact Lyman now, not hopeful as I have owned the mold for a few years.
Steve crawford
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:32 pm
Location: Abilene,Texas

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by Steve crawford »

Take the empty mold, close it with the handles. Then look through the open end with the spur plate swung out of the way. ( A bright light behind the mold will help) If you can see any light between the mold helves there is a small amount of build up on the matting surface of the blocks. This will cause the bullet to be out of round and over sized. Don't ask how I know. :oops: :oops: :oops: Check both halves of the block and the guide pins and the guide pin holes very closely. Paul Jones does not make out of round molds, but I can cause them to be out of round. :cry: :cry: :cry: Just a thought. Good luck.

Steve
NRA Life Member TSRA Life Member
Shiloh #1 Sporter 40-2.1 Remington Rollingblock #1 40-2.1
User avatar
desert deuce
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by desert deuce »

Have had excellent customer service from Lyman over the years.

Asking any maker for a perfectly round mould may be asking a bit much.

And, as a famous world class rifleman and renown gunsmith once remarked,
"the trip down the bore will make them round."
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
bruce m
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 am
Location: australia

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by bruce m »

indeed the trip down the barrel will shape them up, but will the centre of mass be on the geometric axis?
keep safe,
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
High Desert Hunter
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by High Desert Hunter »

Perfectly round is too much to ask. I will do a thorough inspection of the blocks to see if they aren't properly closing.
User avatar
desert deuce
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: 45 2.1 Loading

Post by desert deuce »

Bruce, Bruce, Geometry in the classroom. It is Targetometry on the range. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Post Reply