perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

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art ruggiero
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by art ruggiero »

i like to keep them in the white, easier :: to see the holes :D art
bobw
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by bobw »

In August of 1879 IIRC JS Sumner shot a score of 221/225 at 800,900,& 1000 yds. He didn't do it with greasers either and used a modified Fulton position as they could not use a rested gun back then. He used a 1878 Borchardt LR rifle, the Sharps rifle Co instructed his local gun dealer to trade him out of his Frank Wesson LR gun because they knew he would give them great advertising by just using a Sharps. They compensated that dealer the difference on the trade. It was 139 years ago and my memory is getting a little fuzzy on all the details but what the hell if you guys would join the Sharps Collector Association you would know this stuff like I do. bobw
bobw
gunlaker
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by gunlaker »

Thank you for that Bob.

Our modern game has strayed quite a bit from the original one. I have to admit that I wouldn't look forward to the recoil from a 10 lb rifle with a 100+ gr powder charge, but I think we've lost a little something as our game has evolved.

It is very interesting to see that group sizes really haven't changed much in the last 140 years, even with our lathe turned molds, barrels and chambers with super consistent dimensions, and artificial support, etc. In contrast, smokeless guns have evolved tremendously, even in the last 20-30 years.

When I first started shooting these rifles it was the history that drew me in. Not the history of buffalo hunting, but the history of long range target shooting. I look forward to the next Roy Marcot book as I hope it'll shed a little more light on the competitions. Not so much the first couple of matches which seem pretty well documented stuff, but the later years as Creedmoor shooting with BP started tailing off.

Right now I just dig through stuff that Kenny or David have dug up and shared with us.

Chris.
ChrisF
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by ChrisF »

I am like you Chris my love of these guns is in the long range target end not the hunting end. It would be interesting to see how it would work today by using the materials they used then. Like wiping with water and none of the special stuff we use today. I have been to modern matches and the ones using BPCR Rifles. In my opinion the rifles of days gone by are more interesting and better looking guns than modern ones.
beltfed
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by beltfed »

ChrisF
Just so you know. FWIW , I still wipe only with distilled water followed by dry patch.
And some others I know also use only water as it is still the best solvent for the salts,etc
in BP fouling
beltfed/arnie
bruce m
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by bruce m »

gunlaker wrote:Thank you for that Bob.

Our modern game has strayed quite a bit from the original one. I have to admit that I wouldn't look forward to the recoil from a 10 lb rifle with a 100+ gr powder charge, but I think we've lost a little something as our game has evolved.

It is very interesting to see that group sizes really haven't changed much in the last 140 years, even with our lathe turned molds, barrels and chambers with super consistent dimensions, and artificial support, etc. In contrast, smokeless guns have evolved tremendously, even in the last 20-30 years.

When I first started shooting these rifles it was the history that drew me in. Not the history of buffalo hunting, but the history of long range target shooting. I look forward to the next Roy Marcot book as I hope it'll shed a little more light on the competitions. Not so much the first couple of matches which seem pretty well documented stuff, but the later years as Creedmoor shooting with BP started tailing off.

Right now I just dig through stuff that Kenny or David have dug up and shared with us.

Chris.
well said chris.
there is no way to understand history better than doing it.
a lot of bison guys think they are living history, but they don't go the full mile like you do.
keep safe,
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
gunlaker
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by gunlaker »

Bruce I still shoot the "new way", and do very much enjoy the modern BPTR games, but I find the historical aspect very interesting.

It would be interesting to see a match run in the old way, i.e. not lying down and firing your whole string at once. I know why it's not done these days, but I think it would rapidly close the gap between paper patch shooting and greasers. The extra time to ensure that the bore condition is perfect between shots would make all the difference in the world.

Chris.
ChrisF
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by ChrisF »

And by closing the gap between greasers and paper patch would paper patch be the better choice
Orville
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by Orville »

In Gould’s book the Modern Rifle published 1891, Gould says the paper parched bullet is what is used for fine target work.
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Shooting grease groove bullets in a sharps is new technology and just a passing fad.
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kenny s
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by kenny s »

My wife said are you shooting the Sharps in competition?
I said yup. against guys the died 130 years ago!
ChrisF
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by ChrisF »

When did grease groove come into play
dbm
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by dbm »

gunlaker wrote:It would be interesting to see a match run in the old way, i.e. not lying down and firing your whole string at once....
That's how we still shoot matches in the UK. Two or three shooters will share the firing point and same target, taking turn firing. I primarily shoot muzzle loaders and it works well, so while I am up loading the next person is down firing and the other getting ready. Same is done with BPCR though.

David
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bobw
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by bobw »

ChrisF wrote:When did grease groove come into play
After the LR died out in the early 90's and mid range as well as 200 yd shooting came into vogue with smaller calibers being used. 1st they ran out of buffalo. 2nd they ran out of men . 3rd the whiners took over. yeah I said that.
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rdnck
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by rdnck »

And you are spot on, as usual. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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ChrisF
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Re: perfect 1000 yard targets in the original Creedmoor matches

Post by ChrisF »

Whiners?
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