paper patching

[ksbreed123]

if i was to try my luck at paper patching my 45/70, what bullet diameter would i start with and what type of paper.i have a .457 bore
thanks guys

[Coltsmoke]

You have a .457 groove, the bore should be .450, how do you know the groove is .457 and not .458?

[ksbreed123]

actually it is .4575....that was what my plug measured

[martinibelgian]

ks,

It would be surprising to say the least to be able to measure groove diameter with a plug gauge. For bore that will work, but for groove... And .4575 as bore would mean a groove diameter of something like .4655, which isn't really standard...

[Distant Thunder]

In an effort to try and clear this up a bit and help those who would like to know more about paper patched bullets I'm going to jump in here.

The "bore" diameter of a rifle barrel refers to the hole through the barrel at the top of the lands.
The "groove" diameter refers to the diameter at the bottom of the grooves cut into the bore to impart spin.

While grease groove bullets in modern BPCR shooting are almost always groove diameter to groove diameter plus .001 - .002" paper patched bullets come in at least 3 different configurations, 1) groove diameter, 2) bore diameter, and 3) two-diameter.

Groove diameter paper patched bullets will usually be patched to the groove diameter or as much as .002 -.003" over much the same as grease groove bullets. They are loaded much the same also.

Bore diameter paper patched bullets are patched to the diameter at the top of the lands or in some cases a little less than that. I have not had the best accuracy using anything that was loose in the bore. I'll leave that to others who know how to make it work to explain. I like my bore diameter ppb to be a snug fit in the bore such that I can with a little effort push the bullet completely thru the barrel with a wiping stick (cleaning rod). Bore diameter ppb are meant to be seated very shallow in the case so that almost the entire length of the bullet is sitting in perfect alignment on top of the lands.

Two-diameter paper patched bullets have varying lengths of both groove and bore diameters when patched and have proven to be very accurate when adjusted to each individual rifle. Especially rifles with a freebore section and/or loose chambers.

Someone wanting to give paper patched bullets a try has to be able to know the chamber and barrel dimensions of their rifle to a reasonable degree of accuracy to be successful. It will help you find out which type of paper patched bullet will likely work best in your rifle.

Paper patched bullets can be extremely accurate and provide a higher level of shooter satisfaction than the other kind of BOCR bullets. They will improve your appearance and your scores when done properly, but you can't just stumble into it, slap some grease on it, shove it in a case, and yank the trigger and expect to hit what you're aiming at.

I believe that fit is the number one key to successful shooting with ppb and because the paper will determine that fit you most first determine what paper will be used before you can know what diameter bullet will fit your rifle. You can just buy a mold of a given diameter and then experiment with different papers to find which works best, but you’ll end up buying more molds that way. Paper is relatively cheap.

It is surprisingly simple to assemble accurate loads with paper patched bullets, much more so than some will tell you and you can save yourself a bucket load of trouble by first learning what it really is and how it's done correctly. The internet is full of "experts", some actually know what they're talking about. You can tell the difference by their recorded results. Do some research then ask questions and enjoy the journey, getting there is half the fun!

[Distant Thunder]

As to the OP's .4575" bore diameter.

Most modern made BPCRs in .45 caliber will have a bore diameter of .450" plus or minus and a groove diameter of .458" plus or minus. That is what makes your dimension questionable. We just need to clear up what you really have and where.

[bpcr shooter]

Distant thunder beat me to it..........


I believe you are measuring groove dia... 45cal normally run .450 bore (bore is the smaller dia) with .457-.459 groove dia. Take a bullet .458 in dia and drive it thru your barrel. then measure the imprint the rifling left that will be bore. Most likely you will be running a .443-.444 bullet (of your nose choosing) wrapped with 2 wraps of 9# onion skin paper, that should bring you to .449-.4595. Also seating depth will vary greatly with anyone you ask but, I run .090 and taper crimp enough to keep the bullet in place.

If you so choose to run groove dia PP bullets push a .459-460 bullet thru and measure like before. run the same paper, typically this method is reserved for smokeless loads, not to say people dont use it for black, and use it well.

Bullet hardness will depend on bullet style, longer the nose harder the bullet, to keep nose slump from happening. If it were me I would run a .443 elliptical nose @16-1 with at least 75gr/80gr of 1 1/2f or 2F, .060 poly wad, CCi BR2 with a over primer wad.

Fill the case with powder til you have .100 left in case, put in the .060 wad and compress .060. That should get you started..............

[Distant Thunder]

bpcr shooter is spot on in what he's saying for a target load. I don't use an over the primer wad, but they can work well.

The sweet spot in .45 caliber will usually be somewhere between 80.0 and 88.0 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss, I run 83.0 grains in my .45-70 with a bore diameter ppb. The longer cases will use more powder mostly as filler. I had to run 100.0 grains in my .45-90.

A seating depth of .090" is good. I seat a bit shallower in my .40-65 because I can and it works, but .090" in my .45-70.

I like a very light taper crimp and it seems to always improve accuracy for me.

Yes on the .060" LDPE wads as well. I here the CCI BR2 primers are good, but that may be more the rifle and what it likes and doesn't. I do need to try some of them.

Absolutely, bullet form and hardness go hand in hand, but 16:1 is never a mistake to start with for target loads and bullets. Hunting is a different animal.

The more specific information you can give us on your rifle the more specific we can be with advise. Otherwise we're just tossing out general info and hoping something fits your needs.

[Coltsmoke]

I like that Distance Thunder,"they will improve your appearance", most of my bunch including myself probably should change to PP just for that alone.

[Distant Thunder]

Coltsmoke,

I hear ya on that!

Some of us need all the help I can get!

DT

[Ray Newman]

Distant Thunder and BPCR Shooter: very informative posts!

[bpcr shooter]

[quote="they will improve your appearance",[/quote]


I'm still young....38 yrs young that is, so hopefully I don't need that for a little while but when you bring one out people are always asking "Holy crap what is that?? Its damm good looking"

[Kurt]

Awh DT leave them alone. When all of these new diaper shooters get proficient and start leading on the leader board over the rumble strip shooters they will come around asking what is the best way...…...

[Distant Thunder]

Even a good looking younger shooter will look his best when he steps to the line with paper patched bullets! They are just so loooong and sexy looking, clean and well dressed too! Guaranteed to draw attention of all those around you, including the ladies!

I don't shoot them just because they make me look so good, I shoot paper patched bullets because they shoot so well. Could I win matches shooting grease groove bullets? Probably, but why would I want to do that when I can look so much better winning with PPBs.

DT

[Distant Thunder]

Now, Kurt, I am doing my best to be good here and behave myself. Brent and I have made up, we always do, and I'm going to try and behave better going forward.

Paper patched bullets don't wear diapers, they are just dressed in their best Sunday go to meetin' shirt, all pressed and clean!