16:1 and 25:1

[bruce m]

charlie,
your point re accuracy is a good one.
there are no prizes for highes b.c. or highest muzzle velocity.
however kurts picture demonstrates the point that you are probably chambering a money bullet, but a creedmoor is leaving the muzzle.
to capitalize on the attributes of long range designs you just have to go the extra yard.
kurt's point re potential nose bending in this situation is valid, in that not all bullets will slump the same way, opening groups and producing fliers.
if a correctly fitting bullet that fills a fired case still leads with 16:1, then go chasing seating depth first, and if that fails something is wrong that needs to be found.
by settling on a soft alloy with that bullet you are accepting less than the potential it has to offer.
doing so is using a zig to fix a zag.
keep safe,
bruce.

[hipshot1]

Charlie
Just shoot what the gun likes, don't worry about what everyone thinks you should be shooting.

[charlie young]

Great information gentlemen. How much does the load have to do with nose slump, set back etc. Wouldn't a 110 shooting 90 grn's have more effect than a 45-2.4 shooting 75.


Thanks,
Charlie

[Kurt]

Cant say Charlie, don't have one.

[bruce m]

hipshot,
no one is telling charlie what to shoot.
he asked a question, and some saw fit to answer, based on personal experience.
based on your way of thinking, maybe we should not have wasted our time.
do you understand b.c.?
are you happy if a percentage of your shots miss a target due to keyholing?
do you like winding on more wind than necessary?
charlie,
i shoot a money bullet in 45/2.4" in front of 90 gns of swiss 1.5, usually 14 or 16:1 with no leading and no stray shots.
i used to shoot a creedmoor design with 74 gns 1f, and it leaded a little. at 20:1 or softer.
bore riding nose and soft alloy that took the rifling.
it also took more comeup than the money bullet and required more on the wind arm.
even the old 40/50 used to bump bullets into the rifling.
it is hard to say whether massive charges bump more, but one would assume they do.
a bullet type for soft alloy is baco jim459575.
notice the short nose, similar to a pope or other type scheutzen bullet.
it does not have the mass to slump much.
one of the first long nosed bore riders to appear is the govt bullet, and it was 16:1.
bullet fit in a fired case is THE critical thing.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce m]

sorry that baco bullet is jim475.
kurt has shot bullets like this with success.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Shadow 4]

Bruce, if the bullet is hitting consistently a 24"x27" target at 900 yds. I can't see the bullet is deforming, therefore maintaining the reason for the money bullet. If I have to start pan lubing I'll hang up the guns. The bullet casts at .459, the idea of shooting them as cast is not a bad idea and I can do that with a different die in my sizer.

Charlie,
If you're using 25/1 in a money bullet, it's slumping.
Question #1: did you shoot the 25/1 & 16/1 the same session or different nights
#2: If same session, did you shoot the 25/1 first or the 16/1
#3: If same session & 25/1 first, is it possible that the leading with the 16/1 actually started with the "slump" of the 25/1, causing the unlubed ................"slumped" nose to contact the barrel, thus actually starting the leading

Great information gentlemen. How much does the load have to do with nose slump, set back etc. Wouldn't a 110 shooting 90 grn's have more effect than a 45-2.4 shooting 75.

One would think.

I've had the chance to speak with a gentleman that shoots a 45-100, using 92grs & 25/1, 560 grs, doesn't seem to be having bullet slump problems, but, he doesn't shoot a Money bullet either.

I load 75grs into my 45-70 behind a Money bullet, 16/1 tho, 060 walters, no news print TWAD in the load anywhere, bullet slump seems to have gotten "better"

[charlie young]

Wish I could download the picture off my phone of my target at 900 yds. with my "slumping" money bullet.....

Brian, the first night was shot using 2 guns. Both 16:1. When my Bull Barrel went down I finished up with my LRE. Bull barrel leaded some, the LRE much worse.

The 25:1 was shot the next night with the LRE, with not near the good shooting conditions as the previous night. And still outperformed the 16:1 with way LESS leading.

[hipshot1]

Brent
My way of thinking,
Not every gun likes the same thing, if they did this would be way too easy.
when you start thinking about all the what ifs, it messes with you head, and then Charlie don't shoot as good as I know he can shoot.
Just my way of thinking

[Kurt]

Charlie if you used that same bullet and alloy at the Mt. 1000 in 2016 I wouldn't worry about it. You whooped all 61 of us all using it.
Kurt

[charlie young]

Kurt, that bullet was actually a Brooks Creedmoor with reduced top band, cast at 30:1 as per Steve's suggestion. Won the scope class at the Quigley with the same bullet. That being said, that mould is a son of a gun to cast, it will not release the bullet. And with that top ring groove exposed the amout of dust and dirt it collected during some of our "normal"
wind days, kind of made me want to try something else...hence the BACO money bullet.
.

[Kurt]

LOL. Don't tell Steve that. He will give you a reply with a free casting lesson
Don't ask me how I know this

[charlie young]

It's a great mould, bullets are near perfect and shoot extremely well. We will be shooting it at the Quigley, in at least one of the rifles. Maybe will see you there. I am Range Officer for Red D again, so if you see some tall dumb lookin' son of a gun with a filthy grey cowboy hat....it's still me.....

[Kurt]

We met at the 2016 Mt. 1000.

[Don McDowell]

Charlie, I've found that 16-1 with a money bullet either slick or grooved seems to help accuracy and any little flakes of lead.
I load 45-70,45-90 and 45-110 with the same bullets. Much easier to keep the pot full of the same alloy.