Paper patch tale of tails

[Dennis Armistead]

I've been loading paper patch rounds for quite a few years and experiment with loading to achieve the most accurate load I can. But I have a question...
why is the patch cut so you fold the excess under under the base of the bullet? I've loaded this way for years because that's how I was shown to do it. I've even seen long tails twisted and shoved into the cupped base. So while loading some flat based rounds this week I had to ask myself...why leave a folded patch under the base at all. We all know that the base of the bullet is the steering wheel so to speak, so we take great care to cast with a nice flat base, void of any imperfections...wipe off any lube to prevent the wad from hanging on etc...
Since I load with "over the powder wad, lube wad, over the lube wad and then a thin paper wad over that wad, why was I folding the patch under the base of the bullet which was rough and irregular etc. I certainly don't leave rough paper under my grooved rounds so why was I doing that with my patched rounds??? Just food for thought so I thought I would bring it up for discussion. I know that I'm going to experiment with patches that only go to the base of my bullets and see what happens. Maybe I'm missing the boat so to speak when it comes to accurate patched loads.
Dennis

[bobw]

DA, be my guess most guys here who patch left the twisted tail method long ago. Most guys I know use the Hyde style fold over with an open ctr..... good luck bobw

[martinibelgian]

To make sure the patch stays in place when seating the bullet? And that the patch just stays in place at all...

[Orville]

The twisted tail being pushed into the hollow base is a myth the twist was always cut off

[Dennis Armistead]

The twisted tail being pushed into the hollow base is a myth the twist was always cut off

Ok Orville, I get that, It makes since. No reason to have that thing hanging on. But my question is to why have it there at all, to have to cut off?
I was wandering what the reason the ODG's patched this way in the first place? I know I have patched many rounds with the patch tucked under the base because that's the way it's done...but why? Just looking for some history on this.
Dennis

[gunlaker]

Dennis, the Chase patch method doesn't have any patch below the bullet base at all, but that system came into use after the Sharps rifle company was gone. It was used for breech seated bullets, and used a single wrap of paper rather than a double wrap like in the original Creedmoor days. I've never tried a bullet with a bare base but I've thought about it

Chris.

[bpcr shooter]

only reason I can see is to keep the paper on before being loaded, but if you dry patch then load...... the wad should push the paper out. you may have to run the "M" die in to expand a little more so the patch stays in place, but then it may come un-raveled. let us know if it works!!!!

[Orville]

The twisted tail keeps the patch from unraveling, bullets were made and patched by the thousands before being loaded into a case. When done right the patch was secure enough it could be run through an automatic loading machine. The bullets were patched dry a very tiny amount of mucilage was used in the patching machines to pick up the next patch.

[kenny s]

Ok, I'm going to try something, and I'm curious if anyone has done it before.
(someone must have)

I'm patching my 40 70 SS with the BA 420 (415 weighed) PP bullet using BA 25% #9 cotton patch damp wrapped.
Before loading I cut off the twisted patch base, and then , I'm running it through my Lube-Sizer with a 408 die.
The patched bullet is only . 398 so it only flattens the patch on the base.
It also puts just a little SPG on the patch. (I'm not turning the lube
handle up top at all, but it picks up a little Lube going through the die.

I'm wondering if the now completely flat paper on the bullet will mean an 'even' base on the bullet over the .060 Walters Wad

All this is instead of just cutting off the base and loading, which by the way put 4 in one inch at 100 last week.
So it's an accurate load to begin with.
thoughts???? Ken

[powderburner]

Now that you have a standard when you try the new load with the new bullet design or patch design you’ll know if you’re on the right track or not

[Dennis Armistead]

The twisted tail keeps the patch from unraveling, bullets were made and patched by the thousands before being loaded into a case. When done right the patch was secure enough it could be run through an automatic loading machine. The bullets were patched dry a very tiny amount of mucilage was used in the patching machines to pick up the next patch.

I thought Hugo's machine had something to do with it. I did load up a bunch of bare butt patched rounds, I'll let you know they shot.
Dennis

[MikeT]

kenny s,

Why waste the extra patching paper by twisting a tail on the patch. Just use the Hyde method of patching which will use up less paper.
I set my wet patches on a hot plat [set to warm] and they dry with flat bases.

Unless you have a lot of time on your hands to patch, dry, cut tails, and run thru a sizer, try to simplify the process.
I only size some of my patched bullets when the paper thickness changes a little. This is mainly to allow for less stress on my thumb.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[kenny s]

Ok MIke. I cut the patches, wet them a little on the bottom and set them on the hot plate. pushing them down makes them nice and flat.
BUT. how do you keep them from falling over? do you have a grid or soemthing.
one little bump and they're all on their side.
K

[MikeT]

kenny s, you do have to watch what you are doing while setting them on the hot plate to dry.

I only put 50 on the hot plate at a time so there is room for my fingers .

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[kenny s]

ok Mike, but how do you keep them from falling over?