Results of first shots with new Shiloh

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yesterday, I had my first opportunity to shoot my new rifle, described in the Support Forum.

I had loaded only a few rounds, as I have learned the hard way that if a load doesn't work, it's not good to have fifty of 'em. I was both pleased and surprised by what happened.
With just a guess as to a sight setting, I fired my first round at 100 meters and printed on my letterhead sized target. That both surprised and pleased me. I cleaned with one wet and one dry patch, and fired a second shot, .467" from the first! So I cleaned again, and fired my third, for a 1.2" group. I was thinking, how could it be this good this fast?
So I cleaned and fired three more, but this time the group was 2 1/2" directly below the first group, but only .639" centre to center. What the heck...why the vertical stringing of groups?
My brother, who is a very good bench rest shooter, suggested two things. First, rest the rifle on the forestock rather than the barrel, and Second, the forestock wood needs to be relieved where it is in hard contact with the receiver.
I moved the rest back for a forearm rest on the bench rest, changed my sights to bring the group closer to the 4" black bull, and fired three shots into 1.5" on the bull. Out of ammo.
Thanks to you subscribers who taught me to wrap my bullets correctly, and to those who described how they size the 45-70 case for a good fit on a bore sized bullet. That's what this site is all about!!

[Coltsmoke]

D Taylor, if you are going to shoot in competitions you will be shooting off cross sticks with the barrel resting on them. Unless you plan on shooting off the forearm in the cross sticks I would suggest you work up your loads shooting off the barrel at the bench. You do need to take a small amount of wood off the back of the forearm so it doesn't touch the receiver, maybe the thickness of a business card. Next you need to find the null spot on the barrel, and shoot with the barrel on that spot.


Now share the info. on how you size a 45-70 case for a good fit on a bore size bullet.

[Lumpy Grits]

Sounds like you started to foul out. Try 2 wet and dry the barrel.
Yes, on the forearm clearance deal at the rec'r. I use a business card to check it with.
Gary

[bpcr shooter]

Im with coltsmoke and lumpy too....

Find the dead spot in your barrel (grasp by the wrist of stock and strike the barrel with your palm starting at the receiver and work towards the muzzle you will hear a tone difference when you do that it your dead spot). your friend is correct in not resting the barrel on anything but that's for modern rifles yours is not modern, also your vertical stringing may be from butt stock placement.... I took a black sharpie an put a line on my shoulder pad so I can see that its in the same place every time. I have the 45-70 short taper crimp and never had any problems but, I wet patch my bullets. you could try starline brass its seems to be thicker or try some 45-100,110,120 brass and just trim it back to get into the thicker brass, heck even 45 basic if you can find it. when I started out I dry patched but found it took to long to load ea case so I went to wet. (that way I can grab 100 and go watch t.v. and patch bullets to be loaded later) Anneal that brass too!! If your just target shooting skip the lube cookie just wipe, I use water/oil solution your barrel should be darn near clean every shot, you cant get it too clean with paper patch bullets but you can have it too wet and that is BAD for PP bullets. 2 wet, one dry and chamber swab. fouling control is very important run your patches down and look down your barrel if you see a bunch of fouling run another wet one, it will change with the weather. not sure on your bullet depth but 80-100 thou is a good place to start. good luk and that it one BEAUTIFUL rifle!!!!!!!!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Great advice all!

I'm in the process of loading another 20 rounds. Here's my process.

I started by de-priming some cases shot in a couple of lever rifles, having already cleaned and polished them in the tumbler.

Then I annealed about 1/2" of the case at the mouth. I ran twenty cases 3/8" into a .45 ACP Lee sizing die, then ran the .450" expander button into the cases in a Lyman die. The cases were chamfered on the inside of the mouths. A patched bullet is a very nice squeeze fit without jeopardizing the patch.

Now I seated CCI BR 2 primers from a Lee hand priming tool.

Next, I dropped a 3/8" newspaper disc onto the primer hole inside the cases. The primer holes have already been drilled for uniformity, and the hole de-burred inside and out.

Now, a weighed 80 gr. charge of Swiss 1 1/2 Fg is drop-tubed down each case...my lsst load used 73 gr.

A .023" Shreddies cereal box card .450" diameter is pressed into each case, and compressed with the expander die .218".

An SPG lube cookie @ .193" is cut and pressed into each case, followed by a second .023" card wad. This leaves .130" for the bullet. The bullets were patched damp, allowed to dry, and pressed into the case mouths. I'm patching the BACo 443530E bullet with .0015" onion skin, adding .006" to the cast bullet which drop from my mould in 1:25 tin/lead at .444"

All appear to be very uniform.

When shooting, I cleaned with a wet, and then a dry patch, and there was no fowling left in the bore. Seating the cartridges, I could feel the patched bullet slipping nicely into the bore. My bore is .450" with groove depth .4565" according to my slug measurements. My patched bullets measure .450" precisely. There is nothing except confetti to be found from my patches on firing. After then last outing, I sanded some wood off the end of the forestock, but it may need a little more...don't think I can get a business card in there.

Observation: annealing the case mouths gave me much more consistent case mouth tension on the bullets, and an easier fit than prior to annealing. I have a feeling that my bench technique sucks. I have a new sand-filled leather rabbit-earred bag for the butt stock rest, and it is taking some getting used to. Good advice on shouldering the rifle, and resting the barrel at the dead spot. I appreciate the input.

[BFD]

I'm scratching my head and wondering why the grease cookie.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I was under the understanding that the grease cookie is part of fouling control...keeps the fouling soft for easy removal. If it is unnecessary, I will load twenty without the cookie, which will allow more powder by the way, and see how that performs. Cleaning between shots will be mandatory, but I'm doing that already.

[BFD]

This is a .45-70 right? Load 82 gr of swiss 1.5, add some card wads, compress to 0.1" depth from the case mouth and seat your bullet. The grease is not helpful when wiping every shot.

I think your card is too flimsy. I'd recommend a 0.06" Walter's fiber or plastic wad.

[BFD]

What brand of brass are you using?

[bruce m]

if that barrel is new, it might be running in for a few shots yet.
sometimes things settle down a little after a while.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Lumpy Grits]

Dump the 'cookie'.
PLZ confirm caliber.
G.

[bpcr shooter]

run 60 thou poly wad, dump the lube cookie. you don't need it if you are wiping every shot.
what brand of powder are you using??(that will let us know how much compression you could be possibly be using). 4565 seems like really shallow rifling to me normally its .459 but I've been wrong before
Your on the right path tho!!!!

I set my taper crimp up so that I can hold the cartridge by the bullet and give it a wiggle and it don't fall out. but can still pull it out with ease. really you don't need any tension and don't want it. I looked last night and I have a 45-70 taper crimp die but I run my 45-100's into it and get a good crimp

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Lots of welcome feedback here lads!
I'm using Winchester brass....that's what I have. The rifle is chambered 45-70 with a 7 degree lead. My powder is Swiss 1 1/2 Fg. I have a sheet of .062" poly for wads...also have Monopoly board and picture matting paper - not sure of thickness, but it's heavy. My wads are tight in the case mouth.

I'll slug the bore again for a second reading.

Is the taper crimp die also called the bullet seating die? Mine is Lyman.

[Kirk]

Hey guys, this is from the first post, he may need a cookie, just sayin!!!!!

Thanks to you subscribers who taught me to wrap my bullets correctly, and to those who described how they size the 45-70 case for a good fit on a bore sized bullet. That's what this site is all about!!

[BFD]

Lots of welcome feedback here lads!
I'm using Winchester brass....that's what I have. The rifle is chambered 45-70 with a 7 degree lead. My powder is Swiss 1 1/2 Fg. I have a sheet of .062" poly for wads...also have Monopoly board and picture matting paper - not sure of thickness, but it's heavy. My wads are tight in the case mouth.

I'll slug the bore again for a second reading.

Is the taper crimp die also called the bullet seating die? Mine is Lyman.

Since you have Winchester cases, you may need a little more powder than 82 grs to hold the bullet up. Try 84 or 85. You want to have just enough room left in the case to seat the wad and then compress to 0.1" depth. That's really all that is important.

Save the cookies to go with your milk afterwards