Results of first shots with new Shiloh

[powderburner]

D taylor.
No the taper crimp die is a separate die from the standard die set.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Does your taper crimp die do the same, or a better job of reducing the mouths of the cases for the bore sized (.450") bullet?

[BFD]

Neck sizing with the FL die tightens things a bit more than the taper crimp in my experience.

[Lumpy Grits]

Neck sizing with the FL die tightens things a bit more than the taper crimp in my experience.

Yup.
G.

[Lumpy Grits]

Hey guys, this is from the first post, he may need a cookie, just sayin!!!!!

Thanks to you subscribers who taught me to wrap my bullets correctly, and to those who described how they size the 45-70 case for a good fit on a bore sized bullet. That's what this site is all about!!

Thank you Kirk.
OP-Try with and without the 'cookie''.
Change only 1 thing at a time and then test fire.
Make sure your front & rear sights are not moving on you.
G.

[powderburner]

My taper crimp dies do tighten my case necks further than the factory sizing dies which seems to be contrary to what the others are saying so I will add, in my humble opinion, to my statement

[powderburner]

My taper crimp dies do tighten my case necks further than the factory sizing dies which seems to be contrary to what the others are saying so I will add, in my humble opinion, to my statement

[BFD]

Dean, what brand and caliber are your dies?

Mine are .45-70 Lymans (both the crimp and the FL die). My FL die has been modified, but not in a way that affects the neck.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My Lyman full length sizing die, with .250" cut off the base, and the bottom part polished out so as not to overly size the head of the case, reduces the mouth of the case to .453". that's not tight enough for a .450" patched bullet. That's why I need to use the 45 ACP die to bring it down to just under .450" and then neck expand to exactly .450"

[Coltsmoke]

How can a .450 wad seal off a .458 groove and prevent gas cutting?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Coltsmoke: for what it's worth, my home made wad punch cuts my wads .460". I have to force them into the .450 case mouth, and the compression die is a tight squeeze for sure. Whether they pop back out and seal the grooves, I can't say. But I get zero leading, so, no gas cutting.

[Distant Thunder]

Ok, now I have to jump in this somewhat confusing conversation.

D., If you are using a .023" x .450" card wad to "seal" in your .458" grooves I don't think it's working. I think rather that the "SPG lube cookie @ .193" is cut and pressed into each case" is doing the sealing.

For wads the best advise you've been given was to use a .060" poly wad, they seal best when it's needed the most. Drop the grease cookie. Put enough powder in the case to only compress to .090" to your wad, finger seat your bullets, and taper crimp just enough to hold the case and bullet together for handling while chambering.

Don't try to make this too complicated, loading good accurate ppb for target shooting is a very simple process.

1) The primer you like seated in the case you like, but should probably be Starline.
2) Enough 1 1/2 Swiss to have .060 to .120" compression with the .060 poly wad in the case only .080-.100 max.
3) Finger seat you bullet of choice wrapped in the best paper you can find to a snug fit in your bore. Size your bullets after patching if needed.
4) Taper crimp very lightly AFTER the bullet is seated.
5) Wipe with a water or water/oil mix soaked patch 2 times, followed with one dry patch after every shot.
6) Shoot the center out of the target and have fun doing it.

Your bullets should probably be cast from 16:1 for target work. You may be able to go softer but 16:1 will work pretty well with every bullet design I've seen in use.

Seems pretty simple to me.

I've tried 7 or 8 different bullet designs in my .45-70 following these simple steps and they all shot very well. I don't think the BC number matters too much for accuracy, it just affects how much you have to crank on your knobs for the wind and longer yardages. The mistake most shooters make is in using a bullet that is too long for their twist rate. Even if it's just a little too long it may shoot well when the winds are gentle, but when they get twitchy you'll have wild shots with no apparent reason. This is even more important at 600 yards and beyond. It may be possible that as the BC goes up either the twist must be faster or the length shorter, but that's above my pay grade.

DT

[bruce m]

d.t.
your no 5.
i have taken to pulling the second wet back to the breech before pushingit back to the muzzle and out.
similar with the dry.
sometimes the second wet pulled back picks up stuff from the front of the rifling.
i have noticed that just pushing a dry through can sometimes leave liquid behind.
the backpull seems to leave a more consistent bore condition.
this might make it too dry for greasers, but i mostly don't shoot them so cannot say.
when using a pig - like thing, i just pull the gry patch that is behind it back and out.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

bruce,

I know of other people doing similar to what you describe and it works for them. There are certainly many different ways to do this and many variables to explore. I've tried most of them over the past 10 or so years, now I'm all about being in the rifle the max amount of time possible and bore critters are THE best way to accomplish that so that's what I use in all my serious silhouette, mid-range, and long-range matches. My critters have a good rubber washer on the back end that pushes most of the wet stuff out the muzzle, with the one dry patch pushing the critter everything is clean and dry. I run my critters dripping wet too. Can't be too wet in my opinion.

If there is any wet left in my barrel I'd be surprised, but it sure ain't hurting my on target results. When I went to my first paper patched silhouette match with Brent last year and watched him run his dripping wet bore pigs thru between shots and shoot so well I stopped worrying about any residual moisture and concentrated on my shooting.

I do believe the basics are very simple and extremely easy. Someone just getting into ppb can experiment as much as they want after they have the basic down, but K.I.S.S. is best at the start.

YMMV

DT

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks again to those of you who so freely give advice...I'm all ears!

My wad punch yields wads, either card or poly at .460" The image attached shows .459" but it's the camera angle. Will I have to bell my case mouths to seat these poly wads, and will they distort the brass..they're .062" thick?

100_8195.JPG