Drop tube and compression?

[BFD]

Wow! Well I guess that's another thing I've been doing wrong and didn't know it. My drop tube was way too simple to make and is way too easy use.
Sometimes I wonder how I ever hit the target all when I see all the complicated efforts other shooters go through to assemble their ammo.

Still, I don't see a need to change anything I'm doing. Simple seems to work ok for me.

DT

I never said you should change. I would apologize that the complexity of my drop tube offends you, but I really could not have predicted that. It's just what happens to work well for me, after having actually used it as well as much simpler things. It's a free world, is it not?

[Jim Kidwell]

Brent,

You are a university professor. I wouldn't expect anything less than your experimenting for Nirvana...............
See you in a couple of weeks. Good luck this year.................

[Distant Thunder]

A bit sensitive today, Brent?

I am not offended, more amazed than anything and I doubt I would change even if you asked me to. I like my simple drop tube, it's a 14" piece of an old antenna with a funnel on one end and a stop bushing on the other. The funnel goes on the top. It works for both .40 and .45 caliber and has never broken down, though I did misplace it once and had to make another. It took about 10 minutes and now I have a spare.

I never saw the need to use batteries and a vibrator to do such a simple task. You should use whatever it takes for you to get the job done and makes you happy! Just don't hurt yourself on that thing!

I was not surprised by the blue tape!

DT

[BFD]

Brent,

You are a university professor. I wouldn't expect anything less than your experimenting for Nirvana...............
See you in a couple of weeks. Good luck this year.................

It's not experimenting. It is simply streamlining my loading process so I don't have to do the slow pour thing.

Some people buy RCBS automated, electric powder measures and get no shit from anyone. My drop tube is the same damn thing. Why the overreaction to everything I do differently?

A guy asked for some help with putting together a vibrating drop tube. I'm sorry I bothered to help.

This place is really beginning to grate on me.

[John Bly]

Chill out Brent. You make it too easy to pick on you because of your reactions. Just let it roll of your back like water off a duck. See you in Raton.

[sandhillcowboy1]

Brent,

You are a university professor. I wouldn't expect anything less than your experimenting for Nirvana...............
See you in a couple of weeks. Good luck this year.................

It's not experimenting. It is simply streamlining my loading process so I don't have to do the slow pour thing.

Some people buy RCBS automated, electric powder measures and get no shit from anyone. My drop tube is the same damn thing. Why the overreaction to everything I do differently?

A guy asked for some help with putting together a vibrating drop tube. I'm sorry I bothered to help.

This place is really beginning to grate on me.

Well I just returned home and was waiting until I had my regular keyboard to post. First of all Thanks to BFD for taking the time and effort to post and explain his vibratory drop tube, it is very similar to mine, although mine has some grey duct tape (when experimenting it makes for quicker changes . I am sure the other responders on this thread, interested in same, appreciate it as well. It seems there are others who believe in the drop tubes and compression as well as vibratory drop tubes. Some good information you will not find every place, so it should be appreciated for what it was, a helpful post full of good information. Why should BFD be asked to chill out for posting that? The only poking I have seen done were by other posters, reminds me of my 3 yr old granddaughter we just took to airport yesterday and her older sister:)

No where did the OP bring up the ODG's. It seems some are insinuating the VDT should not be used because it was not used by the ODG's. I would question whether some of the same may be using plastic wads, modern designed bullets not representative of what the ODG's used, special rifle barrels with special chambers that may not have been representative of the originals, sights that may not be close replicas, modern presses, on and on............

Although I use a VDT a lot of the time, my hunting rifle is a 2 7/8" sharps MT Roughrider, with replica iron sights, Loomer chamber, a bullet that is close to the ODG's, paper patch of course, and a lube that is close to replicating the original Sharps lube. This is my designated hunting gun and has taken a lot of buffalo. No wiping, and is a sub MOA to 400 yards. Have not tried it further for groups. I know very few competition shooters today shooting a set up like that, so demeaning the VDT because the ODG's did not use it seems to be a little bit hypocritical. To me a real buffalo rifle competition should include those requirements:)

I did not know BFD used a VDT (vibratory drop tube) I do as well and concur with everything he posted. It is good info. The compaction is more consistent than pouring by hand. My large calibers drop for 14 seconds. Once I dump the powder in the VDT, I then have 14 seconds to place wads on and check column height. You have both hands free to do this,so as BFD said, it is a lot more efficient, which is one of the main reasons I use it. Plus the best accuracy I have gotten with a couple of my guns has been with VDT only and no compression. I have one original BPCR gun that will shoot 5/8 inch, 3 shot group at 130 yards using only the VDT and no compression, original sights. Yes, if you are using a smaller caliber and needing to get a lot of powder in you will need to do some compression. Compression does affect the top more than the bottom of the column. VDT do help make column more consistent in that regard.

The VDT works well for me, as I have stated before, there are a variety of ways to skin the cat. It sounds like it works for others as well. Really as with most things in BPCR, you need to try the VDT to see if it works for you. Only then can you make an informed opinion on same.

SHCB1

[Distant Thunder]

Well so much for being "sport for our spotters and laughing at them in our turn!".

How are we going to have a discussion on different ways to skin this cat or any cat if at the slightest suggestion that I prefer a different approach, a simpler approach, someone is going take personal offense. Then when I return what I took as friendly jab all hell breaks loose.

I do apologize for not anticipating the decidedly downward slide of the discussion, I've been down this path before and I need to avoid it in the future. IF I can.

I've known Brent for many years, have shot with him many times, against him as many more, and I consider him a friend. I have no idea why he seems to take very thing I post on this forum as a personal attack on him instead of the friendly jab that it is intended to be. It is clear that this is not going to change and there no point in engaging in that sort of exchange. While I'm not very good at holding back when I see an opening I will make an effort to hold my tongue and not cause what is a good discussion to slide into an all out war.

Now we hopefully can return to the regularly scheduled discussion!

While I love shooting these BPCR with black powder and cast lead bullets, ppb to be exact, I certainly don't care if someone uses a battery operated devise in any part of the process as long as it isn't a violation of whatever match rules are in place. I tend to like to keep things simple mostly because I can operate simple things well, they don't tend to break, or go haywire. A simple drop tube works very well for me and only takes a few seconds to trickle the power through, but that's just me.

I have in the past experimented with a helical drop tube, a longer one, one that was mounted so my powder measurer dumped directly into it, and yes I've even used vibration at one time. I just never noticed any of those being worth the fiddling around my versions seemed to require. I went back to a relatively short, straight tube with a funnel on top. That works for me. That was all I was really trying to say. I will try to keep my sense of humor out of it and see if that helps.

DT

[Jim Kidwell]

Brent,
You are a university professor. I wouldn't expect anything less than your experimenting for Nirvana...............
See you in a couple of weeks. Good luck this year.................

It's not experimenting. It is simply streamlining my loading process so I don't have to do the slow pour thing.
Some people buy RCBS automated, electric powder measures and get no shit from anyone. My drop tube is the same damn thing. Why the overreaction to everything I do differently?
A guy asked for some help with putting together a vibrating drop tube. I'm sorry I bothered to help.
This place is really beginning to grate on me.

Since I was quoted, while in jest, I must be more sensitive in the future to not offend rather large egos.....FWIW................

[Distant Thunder]

Now, JIm, here I am trying to tamp down the flames and there you are throwing fuel on the fire! Is this a great country or what!

DT

[sandhillcowboy1]

Now, JIm, here I am trying to tamp down the flames and there you are throwing fuel on the fire! Is this a great country or what!

DT

I do not know Mr. Thunder or Mr. Kidwell and have only met BFD once, and he seemed like a likeable chap. I have seen many good conversations on this forum derailed by posts that either were totally unintended or had the sarcastic little pokes in them. Actually have heard that in a lot of conversations with fellow shooters concerning same. This is a good subject and the reason I posted earlier in the conversation. Whether intended or not BFD obviously felt he was provoked a little or he would not have said he was sorry he posted in the first place. I have to agree that I thought he was poked as well.

Mr. Thunder's post seems like a genuine attempt to reconcile, so I applaud that, and that was my intention with my long post. I was hoping to keep the original post going as I believe it had a lot of value. I always enjoy hearing both sides of a debate, and anytime posters feel like they shouldn't post for whatever reason we all lose.

I am sure if we all met for a few beers we would get along fine and have fun debating issues. I agree with Mr. Kidwell that there are plenty of egos to go around, actually they are not a problem as long as they don't contribute to members not posting

Hope to meet you all sometime and share a drink with you. Good shooting to all!

SHCB1

[Dennis Armistead]

I have a question about the vibrating drop tube. While I don't use anything but a plain long drop tube, I was thinking of making a vibrating loading block instead for my long range rounds. Has anyone tried this method? By looking at Brent's set up I see that the cartridge case is being vibrated as well because his drop tube is touching the case. Nice set up.
Dennis

[BFD]

I am hard at work on a new VDT. this one will be high tech carbon fiber with solar powered micro electronics, wifi capabilities, and it will tell Aaron Rodgers and Green Bay Packer jokes, lest I forget my sense of humor.

[sandhillcowboy1]

I have a question about the vibrating drop tube. While I don't use anything but a plain long drop tube, I was thinking of making a vibrating loading block instead for my long range rounds. Has anyone tried this method? By looking at Brent's set up I see that the cartridge case is being vibrated as well because his drop tube is touching the case. Nice set up.
Dennis

The vibration is actually on the funnel that you dump the powder in which is not connected physically to the drop tube, other than by the mounting board for the apparatus. I think there is probably a little residual vibration on the case but not like the primary funnel.

[Distant Thunder]

See how much better this works when we are not poking at each other in jest! I can see how this is really going to advance the discussion, yea! Also this will be much easier on the gentle souls among us.

Now, the suggestion of a vibrating loading block is interesting. Not sure how that will work with my using a compression bushing to allow for over filling the case and to aid seating the wad. Especially when seating my .460" in my .451" .45-70 case mouth. I certainly can't make up 50 compression bushings. The bushing(s) would have to remain in place until the wad is seated and compression is complete.

One thought might be to have a single hole block connected to a vibrating device and just set the most recently charged case, with the bushing in place, in the block while I dump and weigh the next charge.
Not sure that speeds up the process, if that is the goal, because it only takes me 3-4 seconds to pour the powder thru my drop tube and the step would still have to happen. Adding more steps is not what I have worked toward in the past. I tend to simplify the process and then simplify further. I have reached a point where there really isn't anything I can eliminate and still end up with ammo!

DT

Notice: No intention of poking fun at or offending anyone was made during the writing of this post. If you are offended by anything I said I feel really, really bad for you. Sorry, but that's the best I can offer.

[Coltsmoke]

Kidwell, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you are involved in a discussion about vibrators.