JB bore paste diagnoses

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

Post Reply
User avatar
Lumpy Grits
Posts: 7319
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: The Mojave Desert...Palmdale, Ca. U.S.A. Earth

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Lumpy Grits » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:17 pm

Distant Thunder wrote:"Have you given any thought to having another 'known' shooter, give these rifles a go?"

Gary,
I believe I read them all, but this has been on going for a while now and I'm old and I tend to forget things. Besides, I also mentioned this idea at some point and was just echoing it above. The frustrating thing to me is that we are no closer to a solution than when we started. It's almost as if it's not to be solved. Just saying.

DT
No worries-
Somedayz, my CRS turns into CRAFT(Can't Remember A Fuk'n Thing). :lol:
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"

Kurt
Posts: 7026
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Kurt » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Distant Thunder wrote:Seven pages and no one has offered any cause that it could possibly be or any solution that could possibly work. Interesting.

I still say it would worth the time to let someone else shoot one or both of Brent's rifles and have Brent shot someone else's rifle. There has to be a way to eliminate some of the possibilities and narrow down the list suspects. Or we coulda cause what is just fill several more pages with nothing gained.

DT
Jim it's hard to give anyone a probable answer with out having a hands on. Brent has been at this long enough and I'm sure he don't need much help working this out if he is willing to work up loads again and it this don't cure it he will come to the conclusion that he need a recoil pad or new eyes or a different barly pop :)
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery Winston Churchill

Kurt
Posts: 7026
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Kurt » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:37 pm

I might add: The first thing I would look at with vertical dirt diggers is maybe a loss of compression and the best way to find out the reason for this is with the upcoming winter......look at the fired bullets.....this will most ikely tell the story what works and what don't.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery Winston Churchill

User avatar
Distant Thunder
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:46 am
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Distant Thunder » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:21 pm

Maybe it's just time for Brent to call it quits, throw in the towel and retire from shooting. He could take up golf perhaps. We all will reach the point when we can't hit a barn from the inside with the door closed. It could just be a sign. Maybe he shouldn't fight it, just give in.

Two winters ago I figured that I was getting up in age and that my shooting would start to fall off before long, so I started buying stuff to take up fly tying, but I haven't had time to tie even one fly. I'm actually shooting better than I ever have since some time last year, but the day is coming and I'll keep all the fly stuff in a box until it does.

Time to break out the clubs and little white balls, Brent!

Just trying to help, my friend!

DT
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn? :lol:

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

User avatar
Lumpy Grits
Posts: 7319
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: The Mojave Desert...Palmdale, Ca. U.S.A. Earth

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Lumpy Grits » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:31 pm

Think Brent would really do well at knitting........ :P
G.
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"

Coltsmoke
Posts: 1031
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:55 am
Location: GA.

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Coltsmoke » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:33 pm

If you have used your brass for a long time you will find that your powder column height will get lower and lower due to wear from cleaning the brass over and over. Your compression will slowly get less and less as the brass wears. Maybe you have reached a point to start testing loads again with that brass. Just my thoughts, don't know about the muzzleloader.
Swamp Man Shelby Stanza for President!!

User avatar
Distant Thunder
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:46 am
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Distant Thunder » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:09 pm

Knitting would be easier on him, he wouldn't have lay out in the sun shooting from 900 yards. Maybe he could find a bench in a park near his home and sit and knit all day. I'm sure he find it relaxing. No brass to clean, no bullets to cast, no loads to put together. Cutting all those paper patches has got to be taking it toll on him all these years.


That's probably the best way to deal with his problem. Not even solve it at all, just move on to something less stressful. That didn't even require 7 pages of posts. Well, I feel much better now that we "fixed" Brent's problem for him. Knitting!

What are friends for!

DT
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn? :lol:

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

Kurt
Posts: 7026
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Kurt » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:21 pm

Hey Jim, Cadillac Michigan midrange is on this weekend......
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery Winston Churchill

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 6618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Don McDowell » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:19 pm

The only thing common to all three rifles is the powder.. If all 3 started going to pot with a new batch of powder, maybe time to start load work up again, or get a different lot of powder.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

User avatar
Distant Thunder
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:46 am
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Distant Thunder » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:52 pm

Kurt,

I'd like to get back over to Cadillac again, but that's not happening this weekend. I'm done for the year, just too many other things to finish up around here before winter shows up. They have a nice range and a great bunch of people over on that side of the lake.

Don,

Brent has already tried a different lot of powder with the same results, shoots like dog poop. It's hard to believe that whatever he's doing would have wrecked all 3 rifles. I'd really like to see him shoot some of my ammo in his rifle, but that ain't going to happen either. It's a problem that's not looking to be solved it seems.

DT
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn? :lol:

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 6618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Don McDowell » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Well if powder change didn't fix it,,,,
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?

mdeland
Posts: 9697
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:57 pm

Agitating the bore worked in the old days to restore paper patch match rifle accuracy and I think it worth a try in this case ! JB just isn't aggressive enough in my opinion.

martinibelgian
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by martinibelgian » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:50 pm

Start over with load development:
Set up the Chrono, check MV uniformity.
Start with certified metals only, maybe even purchase some bullets to try.
1st job is to isolate the variable causing the issue, then you can work on solving it.
IMO, some things can be excluded, like barrel / rifle: if it happens with 3 at the same time, there is obviously another factor.
If shooting other rifles still produces good accuracy, the 'nut behind' can also be excluded.
Common sense indicates that brass can also be excluded, as a ML also has the same issue. This also excludes primers.

beltfed
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:07 am
Location: Central Wi

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by beltfed » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:39 am

To "recondition" a bore:
How about try the "Onondaga" method of breaking in a new barrel:
Use a Bore Snake of the appropriate caliber:
Impregnate the business end with a teaspoon or so of Turtle Wax Chrome polish from your local automotive supply
Pull thru the bore 10 times
Add another teaspoon of the polish and repeat 10 times
repeat cycle up to 100 pull throughs.
Really slicked up and "agitated" the bore of a couple rifle barrels I have tried it on.

( Onondaga is a frequent eloqusionist (sp?) on the ASSRA forum.)

Meanwhile I like some of Martinibelgiium's comments. Try NEW 16+1 alloy, try purchased bullets.
How about slightly thicker paper?
beltfed/arnie

beltfed
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:07 am
Location: Central Wi

Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by beltfed » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 am

Oh, and accuracy was excellent after the Bore Snake/Turtle wax Chrome Polish method.
beltfed/arnie

Post Reply