JB bore paste diagnoses

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BFD
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by BFD » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:06 am

I'm pretty sure my bores are as reconditioned as they can be. The JB certainly does that. I think I'll avoid the bore snake routine. Seems like a good way to wallow out a muzzle and I don't really think I need any more "agitation". The problem was not the powder (tried two lots), not the primers (percussion caps are equally bad), it's not the bullets per se (used two), but it might be in the metal of the bullets. Hard to imagine since I cull bullets pretty hard but different lead will be next.

mdeland
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:35 pm

I can't imagine a better disrupt-or of bullet stability than patch disengagement inconsistency. Same thing happens in muzzle loaders shooting round ball and burning through or land cutting a cloth patch.

gunlaker
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by gunlaker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:11 pm

Jim I can't imagine that this problem won't be solved. Generally anything can be solved with a systematic approach.

Brent there are a few people that you know who have copied your chamber no? You could confirm or rule out ammunition as the problem by having someone else with the same chamber/different rifle shoot your ammo.

If it's good at close range but not so much at long range I would expect that it's either unacceptable velocity variation, or else something causing the bullet to become out of balance like gas cutting,or perhaps crown or rifling damage ( unlikely to happen on 3 rifles simultaneously though obviously ).

Chris.

BFD
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by BFD » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:23 pm

Chris, there are such people with those chambers. DT being one of them. But the time and place to do such shooting does not come along often. Basically, never. Who wants to shoot suspect ammunition in a match? So, a great idea but just not pragmatically feasible.

Gas cutting is a possibility. I don't see it in the patches, but no, so many are shooting paper patches, I can't tell my patches from everyone else's. Snow banks - I'm hoping for snow banks this winter. Big ones.

Crowns are perfect on all rifles following inspection under magnification. All three rifles have been bore scoped.

mdeland
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:49 pm

It would be interesting Brent to try a paper cross/strip patch in your muzzle loader to compare as they should come off easier than the wrapped patch.

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Distant Thunder
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Distant Thunder » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:24 pm

Chris,

That is my point exactly, so far we have anything but a systematic approach. :roll:

I suggested efforts to isolate the problem, to separate the rifles in question from the ammo in question. As Brent has stated this is a great idea but just not pragmatically feasible.

I have offered my bullets cast with my alloy. I have offered my ammo loaded with a different lot of powder, different primer, different brass, and different paper. Also my ammo is shooting very well in my rifle, not sure how that would carry over to Brent's rifle. Just not pragmatically feasible.


I have also offered to shoot Brent's ammo in my rifle. I'm not sure that is a good idea (potential bad bugs) and I now withdraw that offer.

With 3 rifles going to poop all at the same time this is a very curious problem. I have seen this sort of thing once before with one rifle and grease groove bullets and it was never corrected in that instance. Good luck here.

DT
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

What is life but to be sport for our spotters and laugh at them in our turn? :lol:

Each shooter must make their own choice, whether to soar on the winds like shreds of paper or to wallow in grease like a big lump!

BFD
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by BFD » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Actually, I think I have been extremely systematic. And that is why I can rule out so many likely things, and that is also why there are so few promising hypotheses left to explore. That's why I shot multiple guns and bullets last weekend and have also used multiple fouling management techniques and so forth.

77 sharps
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by 77 sharps » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:36 pm

It might be worth trying a load with a 1/8" lube wad to see what happens. But it seems to me the only thing you have changed is your source for lead. I work with sheet lead and the only reason that lead sheet is soft is because it is rolled into sheets. Rolling it softens it. Sheet lead is 98% recycled lead and contains who knows what. My next experiment would be getting lead or an ally from John Walters. Likely a dead end but it's the only thing I can think of right now.

BFD
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by BFD » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:42 pm

That's all I can think of too.

In the meantime, I'm working on a deer rifle for Wyoming in a month. Hope it goes better.

Gussy
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Gussy » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Went back and reread this thread. I would disregard the ML, different cat, and concentrate on the cartridge rifles.

Since powder, primers, alloy have been varried with no change, look at the brass.

Age, annealing, case length, neck tension. Anything changed?? Any loading procedure changed. Uses between sizing, annealing or trimming.

A few odd ball cases could do that if some got mixed in.

semtav
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by semtav » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Just a wild shot in the dark, but in your first post you mentioned lubing your gun with Napa ATF fluid. Did Napa change their formulation and this causing it? Maybe a thorough cleaning again and lubing it with something else for a while.
Heard Kroil would do that, but just hearsay..
Ive always used CRC powerlube from Napa.

dannynorris
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by dannynorris » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 am

I agree with Gussy had a few bad hulls get mixed in a few years ago will play hell with your scores was a real head scratcher untill I found them.

Gussy
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by Gussy » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 am

One other thought, weather. More precisely, humidity. We had some odd hot weather.

Any chance you experienced some wood changes. That could possibly affect all three rifles.

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alfajim
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by alfajim » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:14 pm

semtav wrote:Just a wild shot in the dark, but in your first post you mentioned lubing your gun with Napa ATF fluid. Did Napa change their formulation and this causing it? Maybe a thorough cleaning again and lubing it with something else for a while.
Heard Kroil would do that, but just hearsay..
Ive always used CRC powerlube from Napa.
Brent, Napa and everyone else have changed their ATF formulas to be compatible with the new transmission friction materials.
They still have the old Ford ATF for the older Fords this is made to work with metallic clutch linings. Dextron in all it's variations is made for paper linings so allows some slippage in the clutches with out burning. The new type ATF is made for the new Kevlar clutch linings it is a synthetic fluid with no real slipping allowed but if there is it won't hurt.
So if you used the new synthetic fluid you might want to scrub the hell out of the bore with carb cleaner or brake clean to get the synthetic oil off the bore as it is made to coat the steel (molecular) and stay on it will permeate the metal.
As an old drag racer and auto trans rebuilder learned all this over the years.

Jim O

mdeland
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Re: JB bore paste diagnoses

Post by mdeland » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:19 pm

Well if so then there is your invisible glaze and if the metal has been permeated with ATF then lapping is the only solution I can think of.

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